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...yep, and the fact that the population of Scotland is tiny and over 50% of that population live in the Central belt. Afaik, the only solid evidence against i

...yep, and the fact that the population of Scotland is tiny and over 50% of that population live in the Central belt. Afaik, the only solid evidence against is an apparent lack of "participation" from local communities on land use. Unfortunately, this is an issue that applies as much to council as private landowners in Scotland and also tends to elicit opinions on what "should" be the case, rather than what is actually possible (i.e. people who live in the middle of nowhere complaining about the lack of economic development, complaining that the landowner isn't selling them a house at a cheap enough price, complaining that the landowner only comes up from England to shoot, etc.) There has been an abundance of loose reasoning on that is justified only by the perception that of unfairness (and, unf, a bit of light bigotry about the English). One of the sources for the rather brief Land Commission report was some political theory on power and participation (https://landcommission.gov.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Research-Review-Concentrated-ownership-final-20190320.pdf https://landcommission.gov.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/R... - Section 5 - I studied Politics postgrad btw, theory shouldn't be used this way...it is basic). Madness.

neffy 7y ago
It's not really a "perception" of unfairness... it's a long rooted and fossilised class system, acting to the detriment of the entire country. (Hopefully your politics postgrad included the clearings.) England at least had the Civil War to equalise things a bit, Scotland has never had any kind of revolution or similar to break very old land ownership structures. Scotland's second biggest problem is England, in the form of unbalanced monetary transfers from borrowing from London, and the brain drain to England, and for that matter the rest of the world. But its greatest problem is itself, and the domination of control in a few families hands.
- subjectHarold 7y ago
  It is amazing that you aren't able to distinguish between your opinion and reality. Unfairness is perception. And I am going to have to trouble you for proof of detriment. All you have said is that you don't like inequality, you have failed to demonstrate why a rational person should agree with you. You also, ironically, don't seem to understand what the Civil War was in England or that the Civil War had quite a large effect on Scotland or that the result of the Civil War for Scotland was imposition of govt from England. And my politics postgrad most certainly did not "include" the clearings (I am not even sure what this means...did you go to university?). The purpose of university isn't to indoctrinate and teach whatever version of truth is favoured. Perhaps this is linked to your misconceptions about the Civil War. Finally, the issue here isn't about the "class system". There has been turnover in the ownership of estates and, last I checked, someone who is poor in Scotland can become rich (although you will probably have to move away as you will find a lot of people hanging to your ankles if you stay). The issue relates to the use of land...but I will concede, however, that class is the main issue for most Scots, they just feel the need to justify their hate in logical terms rather than see it for what it is. Btw, saying that Scotland's biggest problem is England is an utter embarrassment (I say this as an SNP member/voter). It not only reeks of bigotry but is a self-destructive pattern of thought. Scotland's decline is a function of the nation and it's people. These "stab in the back" myths only help the weak-minded find (empty) solace in their failure.
  - teh_klev 7y ago
    > It is amazing that you aren't able to distinguish between your opinion and reality. This is snark, and is not welcome here. > my politics postgrad most certainly did not "include" the clearings (I am not even sure what this means neffy is referring to the Highland Clearances which were a brutal and iniquitous time for tenants in the Highlands. I'm quite surprised that given your chastising tone and appeal to authority by bandying around your politics postgrad studies you hadn't heard of this. > the result of the Civil War for Scotland was imposition of govt from England. Whilst there may have been some ripples down through history as a result of the Civil War, there are more conclusive reasons why Scotland became governed from England. Perhaps you should read some Scottish history. In particular the bits about the Union of Crowns and the 1707 Act of Union. I'd also suggest grabbing a copy of Andy Wightman's "The Poor Had No Lawyers"[1], he explains land ownership in Scotland and the reasons why it is difficult for ordinary folks to make inroads into fair land ownership here. > It not only reeks of bigotry but is a self-destructive pattern of thought. Scotland's decline is a function of the nation and it's people. These "stab in the back" myths only help the weak-minded find (empty) solace in their failure. Hoo boy....I'm shouldn't even grace this with a response it's so ludicrous and ill-informed; and I'd suggest you not accuse others of bigotry as it's downright rude. Politically (not culturally) England has always been a problem for Scotland. I highly doubt you're a member of the SNP (I am and your claim from the comments above fail the sniff test), maybe you meant the BNP? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances [1]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poor-Had-No-Lawyers-Scotland/dp/178027310X https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poor-Had-No-Lawyers-Scotland/dp/178...
    - subjectHarold 7y ago
      Yes, I have heard of the Clearances. My point wasn't: "I haven't heard of this". My point was that the framing was bizarre (again, do you understand what university is for? It sounds like you don't) and the implication was that there is one "truth" that which must be indoctrinated...the fact that you don't seen to comprehend this reinforces all of these points. Nope. I would suggest looking on Wikipedia if you want to know more (you don't even seem to know when the Civil War happened) but briefly: Cromwell invaded and imposed rule from England, when he was deposed Scotland was (nominally) independent again AND THEN the Act of Union happened. Weak. There is nothing preventing "ordinary folk" (again, this suggests an inferiority complex) owning land. Anders Povlsen has acquired masses of it, the English have acquired lots of it, CoE has acquired masses of it...go to an land agent and they will tell you where and how you can buy. Yes, everyone who disagrees with you as a baddie. Whine whine. Bigotry is only evil if someone else says it. Lol. EDIT: You have edited in "this is snark"...it isn't "snark", it was a statement of fact (to be clear, the post I was replying to said that there was no perception about unfairness...that is demonstrably false, if I take your house that may seem fair to me but unfair to you...this should be obvious). If you are going to disagree, do it on content. And sorry but when someone says: "Scotland's second biggest problem is England", I don't think that wins them the moral high ground. Replace that with a race/gender/religion. Kind of shocking that you think this isn't bigotry. "and is not welcome here"...put down your pitchfork, stop gatekeeping, communities thrive on the ability to take criticism from outsiders (apparently, I am the evil outsider), they fold under spineless leadership that tries to drive out inconvenient thoughts.

neffy 7y ago

It's not really a "perception" of unfairness... it's a long rooted and fossilised class system, acting to the detriment of the entire country. (Hopefully your politics postgrad included the clearings.) England at least had the Civil War to equalise things a bit, Scotland has never had any kind of revolution or similar to break very old land ownership structures. Scotland's second biggest problem is England, in the form of unbalanced monetary transfers from borrowing from London, and the brain drain to England, and for that matter the rest of the world. But its greatest problem is itself, and the domination of control in a few families hands.

subjectHarold 7y ago
It is amazing that you aren't able to distinguish between your opinion and reality. Unfairness is perception. And I am going to have to trouble you for proof of detriment. All you have said is that you don't like inequality, you have failed to demonstrate why a rational person should agree with you. You also, ironically, don't seem to understand what the Civil War was in England or that the Civil War had quite a large effect on Scotland or that the result of the Civil War for Scotland was imposition of govt from England. And my politics postgrad most certainly did not "include" the clearings (I am not even sure what this means...did you go to university?). The purpose of university isn't to indoctrinate and teach whatever version of truth is favoured. Perhaps this is linked to your misconceptions about the Civil War. Finally, the issue here isn't about the "class system". There has been turnover in the ownership of estates and, last I checked, someone who is poor in Scotland can become rich (although you will probably have to move away as you will find a lot of people hanging to your ankles if you stay). The issue relates to the use of land...but I will concede, however, that class is the main issue for most Scots, they just feel the need to justify their hate in logical terms rather than see it for what it is. Btw, saying that Scotland's biggest problem is England is an utter embarrassment (I say this as an SNP member/voter). It not only reeks of bigotry but is a self-destructive pattern of thought. Scotland's decline is a function of the nation and it's people. These "stab in the back" myths only help the weak-minded find (empty) solace in their failure.
- teh_klev 7y ago
  > It is amazing that you aren't able to distinguish between your opinion and reality. This is snark, and is not welcome here. > my politics postgrad most certainly did not "include" the clearings (I am not even sure what this means neffy is referring to the Highland Clearances which were a brutal and iniquitous time for tenants in the Highlands. I'm quite surprised that given your chastising tone and appeal to authority by bandying around your politics postgrad studies you hadn't heard of this. > the result of the Civil War for Scotland was imposition of govt from England. Whilst there may have been some ripples down through history as a result of the Civil War, there are more conclusive reasons why Scotland became governed from England. Perhaps you should read some Scottish history. In particular the bits about the Union of Crowns and the 1707 Act of Union. I'd also suggest grabbing a copy of Andy Wightman's "The Poor Had No Lawyers"[1], he explains land ownership in Scotland and the reasons why it is difficult for ordinary folks to make inroads into fair land ownership here. > It not only reeks of bigotry but is a self-destructive pattern of thought. Scotland's decline is a function of the nation and it's people. These "stab in the back" myths only help the weak-minded find (empty) solace in their failure. Hoo boy....I'm shouldn't even grace this with a response it's so ludicrous and ill-informed; and I'd suggest you not accuse others of bigotry as it's downright rude. Politically (not culturally) England has always been a problem for Scotland. I highly doubt you're a member of the SNP (I am and your claim from the comments above fail the sniff test), maybe you meant the BNP? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances [1]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poor-Had-No-Lawyers-Scotland/dp/178027310X https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poor-Had-No-Lawyers-Scotland/dp/178...
  - subjectHarold 7y ago
    Yes, I have heard of the Clearances. My point wasn't: "I haven't heard of this". My point was that the framing was bizarre (again, do you understand what university is for? It sounds like you don't) and the implication was that there is one "truth" that which must be indoctrinated...the fact that you don't seen to comprehend this reinforces all of these points. Nope. I would suggest looking on Wikipedia if you want to know more (you don't even seem to know when the Civil War happened) but briefly: Cromwell invaded and imposed rule from England, when he was deposed Scotland was (nominally) independent again AND THEN the Act of Union happened. Weak. There is nothing preventing "ordinary folk" (again, this suggests an inferiority complex) owning land. Anders Povlsen has acquired masses of it, the English have acquired lots of it, CoE has acquired masses of it...go to an land agent and they will tell you where and how you can buy. Yes, everyone who disagrees with you as a baddie. Whine whine. Bigotry is only evil if someone else says it. Lol. EDIT: You have edited in "this is snark"...it isn't "snark", it was a statement of fact (to be clear, the post I was replying to said that there was no perception about unfairness...that is demonstrably false, if I take your house that may seem fair to me but unfair to you...this should be obvious). If you are going to disagree, do it on content. And sorry but when someone says: "Scotland's second biggest problem is England", I don't think that wins them the moral high ground. Replace that with a race/gender/religion. Kind of shocking that you think this isn't bigotry. "and is not welcome here"...put down your pitchfork, stop gatekeeping, communities thrive on the ability to take criticism from outsiders (apparently, I am the evil outsider), they fold under spineless leadership that tries to drive out inconvenient thoughts.