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I want to give a slightly different perspective on this as a cofounder of a startup. First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication a

I want to give a slightly different perspective on this as a cofounder of a startup. First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. As far as salary goes, I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices so I rely on: -People who are motivated by other factors than money (everyone at our company took a pay cut to join). We have schedule flexibility, we are like-able, our tech is interesting, our mission and vision are inspiring I hope, we are good at selling ourselves. -People who like the gamble of stock options -People who are unaware of their market value This is how every startup in seed round works pretty much. That said, I don’t go around complaining that there is a talent shortage. I’m well aware of the situation we are in.

itronitron 7y ago
I have noticed two things, 1) every company I have interviewed with has lied to me at some point in the process. Sometimes those are small lies, sometimes they are very big ones. I get that hiring is a complex process but a company's recruiters and hiring managers should make an effort to not over-promise and under-deliver to people that want to work there. 2) I have never received an offer from a company that asked me my salary expectations. I consider that question a loud signal that I am just being regarded as a data point by the recruiter, and I basically write them off.
- dba7dba 7y ago
  > 2) salary expectation Oh lol. I just applied for a job that asked for salary expectation. Well I guess its ok. I spent minimal amount of time uploading my resume and entering data into 4 webpage.
- helloyo1212 7y ago
  >> Sometimes those are small lies, sometimes they are very big ones. Been there. But lies cut both ways. Once a company is dishonest with you, it is 100% fair game for you to be dishonest with them: - Side consulting gigs - During work consulting gigs, especially if you have "unlimited vacation" - Sneaking off during the day to do whatever That said, that isn't healthy for either party. The best situation is where both sides are honest and both sides work their hardest to reach a shared goal.
fabricexpert 7y ago
> I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices maybe you need some funding then
- jopsen 7y ago
  Article author suggest he could just do the thing himself instead of working for company... Thus, he should seek more equity :) Well, maybe..
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
How do you reconcile this statement: First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. With this one: People who are unaware of their market value
- kabdib 7y ago
  I've seen very-underpaid people go through the realization that they've been taken advantage of. Sometimes it's worked out; the company gives them a big raise, a lump sum in the key of "Sorry!" and the person remains a happy and productive -- and wiser -- member of the team. Usually they're gone within months, though. And often other people follow ("You got /how/ much at OtherCorp?").
- austhrow743 7y ago
  There's nothing dishonest about making someone an offer lower than what you think they could get elsewhere and then accepting it.
  - dangero 7y ago
    There is if the candidate makes their salary a very clear upfront condition of employment and the employer pushes them through a lengthy interview without disclosing zero chance of them being paid that much because the company does not have the money. They are leading a candidate on in bad faith.
- StevePerkins 7y ago
  I think there's a big difference between floating a number like "2X" to entice someone into an interview, then presenting an offer for "X"... versus just floating "X" in the first place, and maybe someone is too timid or unaware to ask for more. Honestly, we're not SKU's. Once you get some experience, the main difference between, say, a $100k developer and a $150k developer is that the latter simply decides that's their price and interviews longer until they find it.
- dangero 7y ago
  As an employer it is not my job to assess and pay an employee their market value. I’m not a career counselor. I have positions I need to fill and those have salaries associated with them. Someone who is overqualified might accept a role when I think they could do better, but that’s me projecting a vision onto them. The employee has mobility to reject my offer, or leave and seek a better job. Also people are complex I don’t necessarily know why the engineer accepted the job for 70% of what I think they could earn elsewhere. It could be an intangible reason.
kraigie 7y ago
>I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices You could if you were willing to take rawer unproven talent. You chose another option and that worked for you and that's great. You could have perhaps hired a student at market rate.

itronitron 7y ago

I have noticed two things, 1) every company I have interviewed with has lied to me at some point in the process. Sometimes those are small lies, sometimes they are very big ones. I get that hiring is a complex process but a company's recruiters and hiring managers should make an effort to not over-promise and under-deliver to people that want to work there. 2) I have never received an offer from a company that asked me my salary expectations. I consider that question a loud signal that I am just being regarded as a data point by the recruiter, and I basically write them off.

dba7dba 7y ago
> 2) salary expectation Oh lol. I just applied for a job that asked for salary expectation. Well I guess its ok. I spent minimal amount of time uploading my resume and entering data into 4 webpage.
helloyo1212 7y ago
>> Sometimes those are small lies, sometimes they are very big ones. Been there. But lies cut both ways. Once a company is dishonest with you, it is 100% fair game for you to be dishonest with them: - Side consulting gigs - During work consulting gigs, especially if you have "unlimited vacation" - Sneaking off during the day to do whatever That said, that isn't healthy for either party. The best situation is where both sides are honest and both sides work their hardest to reach a shared goal.

fabricexpert 7y ago

> I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices maybe you need some funding then

jopsen 7y ago
Article author suggest he could just do the thing himself instead of working for company... Thus, he should seek more equity :) Well, maybe..

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

How do you reconcile this statement: First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. With this one: People who are unaware of their market value

kabdib 7y ago
I've seen very-underpaid people go through the realization that they've been taken advantage of. Sometimes it's worked out; the company gives them a big raise, a lump sum in the key of "Sorry!" and the person remains a happy and productive -- and wiser -- member of the team. Usually they're gone within months, though. And often other people follow ("You got /how/ much at OtherCorp?").
austhrow743 7y ago
There's nothing dishonest about making someone an offer lower than what you think they could get elsewhere and then accepting it.
- dangero 7y ago
  There is if the candidate makes their salary a very clear upfront condition of employment and the employer pushes them through a lengthy interview without disclosing zero chance of them being paid that much because the company does not have the money. They are leading a candidate on in bad faith.
StevePerkins 7y ago
I think there's a big difference between floating a number like "2X" to entice someone into an interview, then presenting an offer for "X"... versus just floating "X" in the first place, and maybe someone is too timid or unaware to ask for more. Honestly, we're not SKU's. Once you get some experience, the main difference between, say, a $100k developer and a $150k developer is that the latter simply decides that's their price and interviews longer until they find it.
dangero 7y ago
As an employer it is not my job to assess and pay an employee their market value. I’m not a career counselor. I have positions I need to fill and those have salaries associated with them. Someone who is overqualified might accept a role when I think they could do better, but that’s me projecting a vision onto them. The employee has mobility to reject my offer, or leave and seek a better job. Also people are complex I don’t necessarily know why the engineer accepted the job for 70% of what I think they could earn elsewhere. It could be an intangible reason.

kraigie 7y ago

>I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices You could if you were willing to take rawer unproven talent. You chose another option and that worked for you and that's great. You could have perhaps hired a student at market rate.