6 ms·

CIA Offers Proof Huawei Has Been Funded by China's Military and Intelligence

83 points by karambir 7y ago

Cypher 7y ago
Sounds like another WMD show, I'll get the popcorn.
- stubish 7y ago
  Indeed. There is a history of only the answers the politicians want to hear being presented, and doubts and counter arguments being swept under the carpet. It's propaganda unless a reputable source can corroborate it.
Chutzpah3 7y ago
And CIA itself funds dozens of american tech companies ? Point being ? If USA does it, it is love, if anyone else does it it is rape ?
contingencies 7y ago
A country with 1.4 billion people and a centralist governance stratagem that allowed them to essentially leapfrog from telex to become the world's largest internet population and the world center for mobile payment penetration through government stimulation and investment. Now the CIA "reveals" that branches of the government had a relationship with the single most advanced telecom equipment manufacturer over the period. I would be more surprised if they didn't. Anyway, thanks to brave individuals we've heard a lot about US government methods ... this is a case of pot / kettle / black... "now give me my budget!".
- dahdum 7y ago
  Does it make a difference if the pot is calling the kettle black here? Even if the US admitted it, that would strengthen the argument. “We know it’s a national security threat, because we do it”.
  - ellius 7y ago
    There's a weird moral element to these discussions though. Lots of people think this is "wrong," or that the CIA is accusing the Chinese intelligence services of doing something wrong, whereas other people admit that all countries play the game and simply are showing this as a legitimate threat. That confusion between morality and cold threat analysis confounds a lot of national security discussions.
    - CyanBird 7y ago
      > simply are showing this as a legitimate threat The issue is with the perspective, China is certainty a "legitimate threat" to the US, at least from a technological perspective, the problem is that China IS NOT a threat to the rest of the world or at least not in the same degree it is to the hegemonic power of the US, meanwhile the US indeed IS a technological and military threat to countries around the globe, so wherever the US and its agencies gaslight about China being a threat, it is always too funny, when you remember that the US has all sorts of military bases, drones subs and spy satellites deployed, not to mention it is already spying digitally on the entire planet (this conversation included ofc)
      - dba7dba 7y ago
        China had not set up military bases around the world in the past because they "did NOT have" the ability to do so. Now that the nation has the fund, they are certainly starting to do so. The Chinese army set up a major base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa just a few years ago. It is the PLAN's first overseas military base and was built at a cost of US$590 million. I'm sure it won't be the last. If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive.
        everybodyknows 7y ago
        China is doing what the US could do but doesn't: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-injured-by-chinese-lasers-in-djibouti/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-inj...
coralreef 7y ago
Heh, the CIA funded Facebook via In-Q-Tel
codewiz 7y ago
Couldn't Huawei debunk the allegations of having backdoors by just releasing all source code of its 5G equipment, along with a verifiable build? It wouldn't even have to be licensed as open source, just available for security reviews. The CIA could still claim that Huawei is hiding backdoors in microcode, or even in the ethernet connectors, but it would greatly weaken their credibility.
- ianai 7y ago
  That only works if they’re not putting back doors into their hardware.
  - secfirstmd 7y ago
    It's work reading the UK GCHQ NCSC reports on Huawei. They consistently complain about the difficulties of verifiable builds for its software and also use of third party or outdated protocols.
ncmncm 7y ago
Does anybody have a clue what this is really about? Obviously it's not about the Chinese gov't putting backdoors in Huawei equipment. They put backdoors in everybody's equipment, as does the NSA and, where they can, GCHQ, the GRU, and Mossad. It's surprising any cellphone still works with all the backdoors in the baseband processors, completely invisible to (e.g.) your Android kernel running as a contained guest. My best guess is that this is about competition with local makers of equipment, which it is much easier to hide NSA backdoors in, and easier to keep Chinese backdoors out of. Or maybe just competition with local makers, in general. The US State Dept has been caught many times with their thumb on the scales on behalf of US exporters, such as taking countries to court to stop anti-smoking campaigns. France was similarly caught spying on behalf of Airbus, vs Boeing sales.
- tbiteteitb 7y ago
  Tariffs
- NikkiA 7y ago
  It's about trying to slow china's growth towards 'beating' the US at global trade. Part of it is FUD, part of it is justifying tariffs and bans.
ycombonator 7y ago
Of course it is funded by the communist regime. Why else they would fight tooth and nail against the bans all over the world.
atemerev 7y ago
I am not a fan of Chinese goals and methods, but this doesn't mean anything. The entire Internet has been funded by US military and intelligence, so what?
sudoaza 7y ago
SOrry didn't the CIA funded Google and Facebook? Who do segmenting of people, face recognition and more? https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...
echaozh 7y ago
Receiving funding is different from being funded by, right? It may have been payment for the service provided by Huawei to the China's military and intelligence, right? Or can Huawei not provide service to them even if it's a Chinese company?
jplayer01 7y ago
I'm a bit alarmed at how disinterested people are being here. Here is China, a global power, doing all it can to undermine Western countries and amass influence/power, and nobody here cares. While they steal the IP of the companies that allow us our quality/way of life, you guys are all "Ah, well, we do it too". Well, fuck, I hope so, because the US is the only superpower with anything resembling Western values that I'd like to see remain the dominant value system. And the West is the only cultural sphere that has any interest in things like due process, democracy, free press, freedom of speech, etc., while China and Russia are more than happy to jail anybody who's critical of them or their policies if they can. - A concerned German
- YUMad 7y ago
  Our own countries conditioned us to think it's no big deal.
- tibbydudeza 7y ago
  Iraq War The coup against Salvador Allende giving them Pinochet I could go on ... you are confusing Western values that came about even before the US ever existed with US jingoism.
- lisq199 7y ago
  I completely agree with you. Well said.
- chillacy 7y ago
  I think it is an issue worth discussing but the way it’s usually framed is from some sort of morally superior position instead of a tactical position. You’ve framed it like a game of chess, which is closer to how geopolitics works in reality, so I can get behind that.
  - jplayer01 7y ago
    I used to be more of a pacifist and idealist. The whole "the industrial-military complex is evil" shtick or "US global hegemony is terrible" thing. I've watched all of Chomsky's talks, read his books. I'm painfully aware of all the legit evil things the US has done in the name of protecting its sphere of influence and I've always been deeply suspicious and critical of the US (that whole Iraq war, black sites, etc. tend to be things that don't sit well with people who think values are important). And I probably would've remained that way if I didn't watch on the news how Russia literally annexed a part of Ukraine without a "war" while NATO twiddled its thumbs and went "Well, they didn't invade, so dunno". Or how the US squanders its influence and power while China branches out into Africa, Asia, Europe and the US by buying out everybody and everything they can - meanwhile ensuring they maintain an iron fist over their own press or any critics, and their entire economy and culture and population. In the middle of all this, Europe is in a decade-long crisis over, well, everything and Germany couldn't influence its way out of a paper bag, despite its impressive economy. For all its flaws (and there are a depressing fuckload), I prefer the US's world order over China's, where they can imprison a million Muslims with no repercussion. I just wish the US were better, in every way, because I know there are tons of people who'll point at the US-Mexico border and what Trump has done and say "See, they're just as bad". And they have a point that the US does terrible things, while still missing the point, and it's both infuriating and depressing because if the US actually held itself to its own standards, I wouldn't have to qualify my every statement where I defend the US over China/Russia.

83 points by karambir 7y ago

Cypher 7y ago

Sounds like another WMD show, I'll get the popcorn.

stubish 7y ago
Indeed. There is a history of only the answers the politicians want to hear being presented, and doubts and counter arguments being swept under the carpet. It's propaganda unless a reputable source can corroborate it.

Chutzpah3 7y ago

And CIA itself funds dozens of american tech companies ? Point being ? If USA does it, it is love, if anyone else does it it is rape ?

contingencies 7y ago

A country with 1.4 billion people and a centralist governance stratagem that allowed them to essentially leapfrog from telex to become the world's largest internet population and the world center for mobile payment penetration through government stimulation and investment. Now the CIA "reveals" that branches of the government had a relationship with the single most advanced telecom equipment manufacturer over the period. I would be more surprised if they didn't. Anyway, thanks to brave individuals we've heard a lot about US government methods ... this is a case of pot / kettle / black... "now give me my budget!".

dahdum 7y ago
Does it make a difference if the pot is calling the kettle black here? Even if the US admitted it, that would strengthen the argument. “We know it’s a national security threat, because we do it”.
- ellius 7y ago
  There's a weird moral element to these discussions though. Lots of people think this is "wrong," or that the CIA is accusing the Chinese intelligence services of doing something wrong, whereas other people admit that all countries play the game and simply are showing this as a legitimate threat. That confusion between morality and cold threat analysis confounds a lot of national security discussions.
  - CyanBird 7y ago
    > simply are showing this as a legitimate threat The issue is with the perspective, China is certainty a "legitimate threat" to the US, at least from a technological perspective, the problem is that China IS NOT a threat to the rest of the world or at least not in the same degree it is to the hegemonic power of the US, meanwhile the US indeed IS a technological and military threat to countries around the globe, so wherever the US and its agencies gaslight about China being a threat, it is always too funny, when you remember that the US has all sorts of military bases, drones subs and spy satellites deployed, not to mention it is already spying digitally on the entire planet (this conversation included ofc)
    - dba7dba 7y ago
      China had not set up military bases around the world in the past because they "did NOT have" the ability to do so. Now that the nation has the fund, they are certainly starting to do so. The Chinese army set up a major base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa just a few years ago. It is the PLAN's first overseas military base and was built at a cost of US$590 million. I'm sure it won't be the last. If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive.
      - everybodyknows 7y ago
        China is doing what the US could do but doesn't: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-injured-by-chinese-lasers-in-djibouti/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-inj...

coralreef 7y ago

Heh, the CIA funded Facebook via In-Q-Tel

codewiz 7y ago

Couldn't Huawei debunk the allegations of having backdoors by just releasing all source code of its 5G equipment, along with a verifiable build? It wouldn't even have to be licensed as open source, just available for security reviews. The CIA could still claim that Huawei is hiding backdoors in microcode, or even in the ethernet connectors, but it would greatly weaken their credibility.

ianai 7y ago
That only works if they’re not putting back doors into their hardware.
- secfirstmd 7y ago
  It's work reading the UK GCHQ NCSC reports on Huawei. They consistently complain about the difficulties of verifiable builds for its software and also use of third party or outdated protocols.

ncmncm 7y ago

Does anybody have a clue what this is really about? Obviously it's not about the Chinese gov't putting backdoors in Huawei equipment. They put backdoors in everybody's equipment, as does the NSA and, where they can, GCHQ, the GRU, and Mossad. It's surprising any cellphone still works with all the backdoors in the baseband processors, completely invisible to (e.g.) your Android kernel running as a contained guest. My best guess is that this is about competition with local makers of equipment, which it is much easier to hide NSA backdoors in, and easier to keep Chinese backdoors out of. Or maybe just competition with local makers, in general. The US State Dept has been caught many times with their thumb on the scales on behalf of US exporters, such as taking countries to court to stop anti-smoking campaigns. France was similarly caught spying on behalf of Airbus, vs Boeing sales.

tbiteteitb 7y ago
Tariffs
NikkiA 7y ago
It's about trying to slow china's growth towards 'beating' the US at global trade. Part of it is FUD, part of it is justifying tariffs and bans.

ycombonator 7y ago

Of course it is funded by the communist regime. Why else they would fight tooth and nail against the bans all over the world.

atemerev 7y ago

I am not a fan of Chinese goals and methods, but this doesn't mean anything. The entire Internet has been funded by US military and intelligence, so what?

sudoaza 7y ago

SOrry didn't the CIA funded Google and Facebook? Who do segmenting of people, face recognition and more? https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...

echaozh 7y ago

Receiving funding is different from being funded by, right? It may have been payment for the service provided by Huawei to the China's military and intelligence, right? Or can Huawei not provide service to them even if it's a Chinese company?

jplayer01 7y ago

I'm a bit alarmed at how disinterested people are being here. Here is China, a global power, doing all it can to undermine Western countries and amass influence/power, and nobody here cares. While they steal the IP of the companies that allow us our quality/way of life, you guys are all "Ah, well, we do it too". Well, fuck, I hope so, because the US is the only superpower with anything resembling Western values that I'd like to see remain the dominant value system. And the West is the only cultural sphere that has any interest in things like due process, democracy, free press, freedom of speech, etc., while China and Russia are more than happy to jail anybody who's critical of them or their policies if they can. - A concerned German

YUMad 7y ago
Our own countries conditioned us to think it's no big deal.
tibbydudeza 7y ago
Iraq War The coup against Salvador Allende giving them Pinochet I could go on ... you are confusing Western values that came about even before the US ever existed with US jingoism.
lisq199 7y ago
I completely agree with you. Well said.
chillacy 7y ago
I think it is an issue worth discussing but the way it’s usually framed is from some sort of morally superior position instead of a tactical position. You’ve framed it like a game of chess, which is closer to how geopolitics works in reality, so I can get behind that.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  I used to be more of a pacifist and idealist. The whole "the industrial-military complex is evil" shtick or "US global hegemony is terrible" thing. I've watched all of Chomsky's talks, read his books. I'm painfully aware of all the legit evil things the US has done in the name of protecting its sphere of influence and I've always been deeply suspicious and critical of the US (that whole Iraq war, black sites, etc. tend to be things that don't sit well with people who think values are important). And I probably would've remained that way if I didn't watch on the news how Russia literally annexed a part of Ukraine without a "war" while NATO twiddled its thumbs and went "Well, they didn't invade, so dunno". Or how the US squanders its influence and power while China branches out into Africa, Asia, Europe and the US by buying out everybody and everything they can - meanwhile ensuring they maintain an iron fist over their own press or any critics, and their entire economy and culture and population. In the middle of all this, Europe is in a decade-long crisis over, well, everything and Germany couldn't influence its way out of a paper bag, despite its impressive economy. For all its flaws (and there are a depressing fuckload), I prefer the US's world order over China's, where they can imprison a million Muslims with no repercussion. I just wish the US were better, in every way, because I know there are tons of people who'll point at the US-Mexico border and what Trump has done and say "See, they're just as bad". And they have a point that the US does terrible things, while still missing the point, and it's both infuriating and depressing because if the US actually held itself to its own standards, I wouldn't have to qualify my every statement where I defend the US over China/Russia.