4 ms·

The health care system in this country is a crime. It is structured to take advantage of people at their weakest and most helpless. We spend 3 times as much per

by olefoo 7y ago

The health care system in this country is a crime. It is structured to take advantage of people at their weakest and most helpless. We spend 3 times as much per capita as most other industrialized nations and get worse outcomes overall.

xenospn 7y ago
That is correct. I am originally from Israel and moved to California 7 years ago. I'm very healthy but on the rarest of occasions, when I do need to get SOMETHING done, it has proven to be an absolute nightmare, and I always walk away feeling like I've been scammed.
- komali2 7y ago
  The one time you aren't being scammed is when you get something done and actually get to bill the insurance company. Paying monthly installments on your insurance plan, only to have to pay for your healthcare costs anyway (first the deductible, then this new maximum out of pocket they added to me this year), that's the scam.
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    In reality, if you're spending ANY money on healthcare in the US you're getting scammed. The healthcare you'll find in Israel and Europe is the modern standard of care and the US is on the opposite side of the spectrum with our corrupt for-profit "healthcare" industry. We pay more for generic crap (generic only has to be 80% as effective as brand) than modern countries pay for 'Made in USA' brand names.
    - m0zg 7y ago
      One thing people miss is, we're paying our doctors _several times_ as much. If that doesn't change (and nobody wants the doctors to earn as much as they do in Europe: there just won't be any doctors), there's really no way to achieve the same cost structure without replacing doctors with something like machine learning in a lot of capacities (radiology/imaging most immediately, other diagnostics in the longer term).
      - komali2 7y ago
        > (and nobody wants the doctors to earn as much as they do in Europe: there just won't be any doctors), Why are there doctors in Europe then? As I've read, it doesn't seem that the cost of healthcare is dramatically higher in the USA because we pay our doctors more, it's because of the insurance industry, and how much money people have to spend figuring it out (hospitals have to have staff specifically to deal with it, as their whole job).
        m0zg 7y ago
        Because coming to the US is a hassle and we'd force them to basically re-qualify to be allowed to practice. Some European doctors do move here and go through the hassle nevertheless. Regarding insurance, I believe since ACA was enacted there's now a limit on how much profit an insurance company can make, as a percentage of the money they pass through. I'm not a specialist in this field, but this seems to have only made matters worse.
        komali2 7y ago
        >Because coming to the US is a hassle Ok, to be clear, you seem to be suggesting that everyone would live in the USA by default if they could, and the only thing stopping them is inconvenient immigration and the cost of a plane ticket? I feel like I must be misunderstanding you because it seems a bit silly.
        m0zg 7y ago
        >> you seem to be suggesting that everyone would >> live in the USA by default if they could You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye.
        komali2 7y ago
        ??? I'm trying to, hence my attempt to clarify. Could you please help me understand what you were saying? I'm trying to read it as anything but how I've restated it, but I genuinely can't. How about this - if America didn't exist, and doctors got paid what they got paid in Europe right now, why are there doctors in Europe?
  - jrockway 7y ago
    Are you getting "scammed" because you have homeowners insurance and you didn't burn down your house? No. The money is to pay for the worst-case scenario. The problem with health insurance is that "rare but catastrophic" is not the only health-related expense that people have. It covers that case quite well, so isn't really a scam, but it also doesn't give people exactly what they want -- seek medical attention whenever and for anything with no financial outlay.

by olefoo 7y ago

xenospn 7y ago

That is correct. I am originally from Israel and moved to California 7 years ago. I'm very healthy but on the rarest of occasions, when I do need to get SOMETHING done, it has proven to be an absolute nightmare, and I always walk away feeling like I've been scammed.

komali2 7y ago
The one time you aren't being scammed is when you get something done and actually get to bill the insurance company. Paying monthly installments on your insurance plan, only to have to pay for your healthcare costs anyway (first the deductible, then this new maximum out of pocket they added to me this year), that's the scam.
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  In reality, if you're spending ANY money on healthcare in the US you're getting scammed. The healthcare you'll find in Israel and Europe is the modern standard of care and the US is on the opposite side of the spectrum with our corrupt for-profit "healthcare" industry. We pay more for generic crap (generic only has to be 80% as effective as brand) than modern countries pay for 'Made in USA' brand names.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    One thing people miss is, we're paying our doctors _several times_ as much. If that doesn't change (and nobody wants the doctors to earn as much as they do in Europe: there just won't be any doctors), there's really no way to achieve the same cost structure without replacing doctors with something like machine learning in a lot of capacities (radiology/imaging most immediately, other diagnostics in the longer term).
    - komali2 7y ago
      > (and nobody wants the doctors to earn as much as they do in Europe: there just won't be any doctors), Why are there doctors in Europe then? As I've read, it doesn't seem that the cost of healthcare is dramatically higher in the USA because we pay our doctors more, it's because of the insurance industry, and how much money people have to spend figuring it out (hospitals have to have staff specifically to deal with it, as their whole job).
      - m0zg 7y ago
        Because coming to the US is a hassle and we'd force them to basically re-qualify to be allowed to practice. Some European doctors do move here and go through the hassle nevertheless. Regarding insurance, I believe since ACA was enacted there's now a limit on how much profit an insurance company can make, as a percentage of the money they pass through. I'm not a specialist in this field, but this seems to have only made matters worse.
        komali2 7y ago
        >Because coming to the US is a hassle Ok, to be clear, you seem to be suggesting that everyone would live in the USA by default if they could, and the only thing stopping them is inconvenient immigration and the cost of a plane ticket? I feel like I must be misunderstanding you because it seems a bit silly.
        m0zg 7y ago
        >> you seem to be suggesting that everyone would >> live in the USA by default if they could You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye.
        komali2 7y ago
        ??? I'm trying to, hence my attempt to clarify. Could you please help me understand what you were saying? I'm trying to read it as anything but how I've restated it, but I genuinely can't. How about this - if America didn't exist, and doctors got paid what they got paid in Europe right now, why are there doctors in Europe?
- jrockway 7y ago
  Are you getting "scammed" because you have homeowners insurance and you didn't burn down your house? No. The money is to pay for the worst-case scenario. The problem with health insurance is that "rare but catastrophic" is not the only health-related expense that people have. It covers that case quite well, so isn't really a scam, but it also doesn't give people exactly what they want -- seek medical attention whenever and for anything with no financial outlay.