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Anecdotal comments, in my opinion, are particularly unhelpful when it comes to dentistry. Many people have teeth prone to all kinds of problems despite perfect

Anecdotal comments, in my opinion, are particularly unhelpful when it comes to dentistry. Many people have teeth prone to all kinds of problems despite perfect hygiene and brushing. Others have, essentially, indestructible teeth. The last time I went to the dentist was 27 years ago. I was told I had three cavities that needed filling. Never got it taken care of. Nearly 30 years later, teeth are working great. But, like I said, I don’t draw conclusions from this as there are others — apparently — who brush twice a day, see the dentist regularly, and nevertheless have a mouthful of problems.

gist 8y ago
> The last time I went to the dentist was 27 years ago. I was told I had three cavities that needed filling. Never got it taken care of. Nearly 30 years later Explain the math here? You went to the dentist 27 years ago but now you are rounding up to 30 years later? Actually a larger point. How do we know (we don't) that you were correctly diagnosed as having three cavities that needed filling? Maybe the dentist was just an opportunist and you didn't even have any cavities? Or (someone who knows dentistry better can comment) there is a state whereby it could be considered a cavity but not such that it definitely needed to be filled?
- sebazzz 8y ago
  Wouldn't that opportunist mindset go against the oath you pledge when you become a doctor?
  - dennisgorelik 8y ago
    The pledge does not matter as much if you got five kids to feed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhjmSp30jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhjmSp30jc
- lurquer 8y ago
  27 years ago is nearly 30 years. I apologize for the lack of mathematical precision. Using a precise number within two sentences of a rounded number is utterly inexcusable. I have nothing to say for myself. It was a contemptible and inexcusable mistake and I am going to voluntarily suspend myself from HN for 27 hours.
grawprog 8y ago
My sister and I are like you. We've both taken somewhat spotty care of our teeth over the years and never really had problems. I've never had a cavity, never had gingivitis. I do get plaque, but I just scrape it off with one of those dental picks. A long time ago, a dentist we had told our parents we had good mouth bacteria or something. I don't know how true this is and I don't put much credence in it, but interestingly enough, the only time in my life I had any kind of gum problems was when I was regularly kissing someone with constant tooth problems. It went away after we broke up and i haven't had problems since again. Again more just a little side note than anything scientific or would recommend basing decisions on.
libraryatnight 8y ago
Do you find this to be true of many health related things as you get older? I know 80 year olds who do literally everything doctors say not to (red meat makes up most of their diet, they drink tons,they smoke or smoked for most of their lives, breakfast of 3 eggs and bacon almost every day) and then I've known people who didn't make it to 50 that looked like bruce lee and lived ultra healthy lives that managed to get lung cancer or pancreatic cancer. It sometimes seems like life is just a game where you can min-max your stats if you want but RNG rules in the end.
- wozniacki 8y ago
  There has got to be some research group out there looking into this sort of phenomenon - people who take great care of themselves yet have lots of medical issues and on the other end of spectrum people who do little in the way of living healthily yet live to a very long age devoid of ailments. We've all seen this anecdotally, at least. Do you think stress levels are a factor that typically go unstudied that play a part in these things? Gut-brain connection? Just good genes? The way we're all bombarded with all kinds of health-centric information of varying integrity these days one would think someone is studying this in a massive way with very large trials across varied populations. On day its TMAO[1] in red meat the next day its something else. Surely someones studying all of this as a whole, right? [1] Teasing Out the Role of Red Meat and TMAO in Cardiovascular Risk https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/teasing-out-the-role-of-red-meat-and-tmao-in-cardiovascular-risk/ https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/teasing-out-the-role-o...
  - libraryatnight 8y ago
    I remember when someone wanted to study Ozzy Osborne as an example of someone who abused themselves but is pretty healthy (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/genetic-mutations-ozzy-osbourne-party-hard/story?id=12032552 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/genetic-mutations-ozz...) So I'd like to think someone is looking at the things you mention. Someone should study my wife's grandparents, BBQ and 7&7s are their way of life and they're as spry as can be
- beagle3 8y ago
partiallypro 8y ago
I have largely stopped trusting dentists, unless I have pain. When my lifelong dentist fell out of network I went to a new dentist and they pushed all kinds of procedures and nonsense, saying I needed 3 fillings, etc. I've been to another dentist and they said things completely different. I don't understand how two professionals can draw polar opposite conclusions. It really seems they recommend needless procedures to fill their books of business and fleece costumers. It's visible cavities and decay, it's not like you're diagnosing based on symptoms someone is describing to you, which I can understand for general doctors or specialists drawing blanks or different conclusions.
- yeahitslikethat 8y ago
  Those pokey things the stick in your teeth were found to create pockets in your teeth where bacteria can hide and actually cause cavities. Source: a dentist.
  - m463 8y ago
    You mean the pokey things a dentist holds when he's exploring your mouth? :)
    - yeahitslikethat 8y ago
      Yes. Looks like Wikipedia confirms, so don't let dentists probe your teeth! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_explorer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_explorer " Some dental professionals have questioned this practice in the first decade of the twenty-first century.[1][2] The use of a sharp explorer to diagnose caries in pit and fissure sites is no longer recommended and clinicians instead should rely on "sharp eyes and a blunt explorer or probe." Penetration by a sharp explorer can actually cause cavitation in areas that are remineralizing or could be remineralized. "
- wozniacki 8y ago
  I've been to another dentist and they said things completely different. I don't understand how two professionals can draw polar opposite conclusions. Isn't there some kind of solution for these sort of diagnostic aberrations or difference in medical opinions? I know they have tumor boards for cancers and such where they try to arrive at a consensus plan of treatment for an individual patient.[1] Surely there are such solutions for dental / other medical issues, right? Somewhat tangential from all this, I'm amazed that in this day and age we still have such a hit or miss approach to treating patients. Its mind blowing how little our medicine has advanced in some aspects despite cutting edge innovations. [1] What Is a Tumor Board? An Expert Q&A https://www.cancer.net/blog/2017-07/what-tumor-board-expert-qa https://www.cancer.net/blog/2017-07/what-tumor-board-expert-...
rthomas6 8y ago
I don't take particularly good care of my teeth: I brush in the morning when I remember, maybe 4 days/week on average. I floss about as often. I've never gotten a cavity or had any problems at all, and I'm 31.
kstenerud 8y ago
Similar. I stopped going to the dentist 26 years ago. Never had cavities since my adult teeth came in, never brushed, never flossed (except to get stuck things out). I moved around a lot, so getting another dentist fell by the wayside. I've gone through a lot of diet changes over the years. I used to consume tons of sugar (multiple chocolate bars & 3 cokes a day), later tons of fast food, then healthy food, then mostly vegetarian & low carb & next-to-zero sugar or sweeteners. Never had a cavity throughout all those phases.
- netok 8y ago
  > never brushed Ummmm Have you noticed that people tend to keep their distance when you talk?
  - kstenerud 8y ago
    Actually, no one has ever done that.

gist 8y ago

> The last time I went to the dentist was 27 years ago. I was told I had three cavities that needed filling. Never got it taken care of. Nearly 30 years later Explain the math here? You went to the dentist 27 years ago but now you are rounding up to 30 years later? Actually a larger point. How do we know (we don't) that you were correctly diagnosed as having three cavities that needed filling? Maybe the dentist was just an opportunist and you didn't even have any cavities? Or (someone who knows dentistry better can comment) there is a state whereby it could be considered a cavity but not such that it definitely needed to be filled?

sebazzz 8y ago
Wouldn't that opportunist mindset go against the oath you pledge when you become a doctor?
- dennisgorelik 8y ago
  The pledge does not matter as much if you got five kids to feed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhjmSp30jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhjmSp30jc
lurquer 8y ago
27 years ago is nearly 30 years. I apologize for the lack of mathematical precision. Using a precise number within two sentences of a rounded number is utterly inexcusable. I have nothing to say for myself. It was a contemptible and inexcusable mistake and I am going to voluntarily suspend myself from HN for 27 hours.

grawprog 8y ago

My sister and I are like you. We've both taken somewhat spotty care of our teeth over the years and never really had problems. I've never had a cavity, never had gingivitis. I do get plaque, but I just scrape it off with one of those dental picks. A long time ago, a dentist we had told our parents we had good mouth bacteria or something. I don't know how true this is and I don't put much credence in it, but interestingly enough, the only time in my life I had any kind of gum problems was when I was regularly kissing someone with constant tooth problems. It went away after we broke up and i haven't had problems since again. Again more just a little side note than anything scientific or would recommend basing decisions on.

libraryatnight 8y ago

Do you find this to be true of many health related things as you get older? I know 80 year olds who do literally everything doctors say not to (red meat makes up most of their diet, they drink tons,they smoke or smoked for most of their lives, breakfast of 3 eggs and bacon almost every day) and then I've known people who didn't make it to 50 that looked like bruce lee and lived ultra healthy lives that managed to get lung cancer or pancreatic cancer. It sometimes seems like life is just a game where you can min-max your stats if you want but RNG rules in the end.

wozniacki 8y ago
There has got to be some research group out there looking into this sort of phenomenon - people who take great care of themselves yet have lots of medical issues and on the other end of spectrum people who do little in the way of living healthily yet live to a very long age devoid of ailments. We've all seen this anecdotally, at least. Do you think stress levels are a factor that typically go unstudied that play a part in these things? Gut-brain connection? Just good genes? The way we're all bombarded with all kinds of health-centric information of varying integrity these days one would think someone is studying this in a massive way with very large trials across varied populations. On day its TMAO[1] in red meat the next day its something else. Surely someones studying all of this as a whole, right? [1] Teasing Out the Role of Red Meat and TMAO in Cardiovascular Risk https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/teasing-out-the-role-of-red-meat-and-tmao-in-cardiovascular-risk/ https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/teasing-out-the-role-o...
- libraryatnight 8y ago
  I remember when someone wanted to study Ozzy Osborne as an example of someone who abused themselves but is pretty healthy (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/genetic-mutations-ozzy-osbourne-party-hard/story?id=12032552 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/genetic-mutations-ozz...) So I'd like to think someone is looking at the things you mention. Someone should study my wife's grandparents, BBQ and 7&7s are their way of life and they're as spry as can be
beagle3 8y ago

partiallypro 8y ago

I have largely stopped trusting dentists, unless I have pain. When my lifelong dentist fell out of network I went to a new dentist and they pushed all kinds of procedures and nonsense, saying I needed 3 fillings, etc. I've been to another dentist and they said things completely different. I don't understand how two professionals can draw polar opposite conclusions. It really seems they recommend needless procedures to fill their books of business and fleece costumers. It's visible cavities and decay, it's not like you're diagnosing based on symptoms someone is describing to you, which I can understand for general doctors or specialists drawing blanks or different conclusions.

yeahitslikethat 8y ago
Those pokey things the stick in your teeth were found to create pockets in your teeth where bacteria can hide and actually cause cavities. Source: a dentist.
- m463 8y ago
  You mean the pokey things a dentist holds when he's exploring your mouth? :)
  - yeahitslikethat 8y ago
    Yes. Looks like Wikipedia confirms, so don't let dentists probe your teeth! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_explorer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_explorer " Some dental professionals have questioned this practice in the first decade of the twenty-first century.[1][2] The use of a sharp explorer to diagnose caries in pit and fissure sites is no longer recommended and clinicians instead should rely on "sharp eyes and a blunt explorer or probe." Penetration by a sharp explorer can actually cause cavitation in areas that are remineralizing or could be remineralized. "
wozniacki 8y ago
I've been to another dentist and they said things completely different. I don't understand how two professionals can draw polar opposite conclusions. Isn't there some kind of solution for these sort of diagnostic aberrations or difference in medical opinions? I know they have tumor boards for cancers and such where they try to arrive at a consensus plan of treatment for an individual patient.[1] Surely there are such solutions for dental / other medical issues, right? Somewhat tangential from all this, I'm amazed that in this day and age we still have such a hit or miss approach to treating patients. Its mind blowing how little our medicine has advanced in some aspects despite cutting edge innovations. [1] What Is a Tumor Board? An Expert Q&A https://www.cancer.net/blog/2017-07/what-tumor-board-expert-qa https://www.cancer.net/blog/2017-07/what-tumor-board-expert-...

rthomas6 8y ago

I don't take particularly good care of my teeth: I brush in the morning when I remember, maybe 4 days/week on average. I floss about as often. I've never gotten a cavity or had any problems at all, and I'm 31.

kstenerud 8y ago

Similar. I stopped going to the dentist 26 years ago. Never had cavities since my adult teeth came in, never brushed, never flossed (except to get stuck things out). I moved around a lot, so getting another dentist fell by the wayside. I've gone through a lot of diet changes over the years. I used to consume tons of sugar (multiple chocolate bars & 3 cokes a day), later tons of fast food, then healthy food, then mostly vegetarian & low carb & next-to-zero sugar or sweeteners. Never had a cavity throughout all those phases.

netok 8y ago
> never brushed Ummmm Have you noticed that people tend to keep their distance when you talk?
- kstenerud 8y ago
  Actually, no one has ever done that.