4 ms·

As a European who's done the math several times over the last decade, my impression is that Americans in desirable states pay about as much in taxes (when you a

by roel_v 8y ago

As a European who's done the math several times over the last decade, my impression is that Americans in desirable states pay about as much in taxes (when you account for everything) as Western Europeans. For some things the results are better, for others they're worse, but overall I don't think there's all that much difference.

luckylion 8y ago
I don't know about other countries, but I've not seen the math come out in favor for Germany. 45% max federal income (with 43% quite easily reached), 19% VAT, high taxes on energy consumption. Even in high tax states like California, you don't usually reach those levels. Using the -yes, flawed- tax freedom day gives a pretty good picture, I believe.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  Don't forget that in Germany your taxes pay for more services than in the US, like universal healthcare. Once you deduct out the cost of all the extra services that your taxes provide for you in Germany (and that they don't provide here), Germany wins. Healthcare is insanely expensive here in the US -- over $10k per person per year (so easily $20k per year for a family plan or more), some of which is born by employers.
  - luckylion 8y ago
    > like universal healthcare Nope, we pay that on top, currently ~14% of your salary (half of which is paid directly by the employer), the same goes for pensions etc. You do get free healthcare only if you're unemployed, but that's not reality for most Germans.
  - 0815test 8y ago
    The thing is that the taxes you pay in Germany don't pay for national defense - that's something that Germany gets for free by free-riding on US taxpayers. And the healthcare you get in socialized healthcare systems like the NHS or what they have in Germany is just barely sufficient - you could get the same deal in the U.S. by signing up with a HMO, and no one does because of how limiting it is. It's basically a wash, and the U.S., while worse at basic healthcare provision (due to pervasive regulatory capture in the whole system, which raises costs far higher than elsewhere) is still better at many other things.
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
honestly, I moved from the states to Norway. I'm pretty certain I'm paying the same or less overall. This is especially when I consider my healthcare is included in that tax. This simple things means I'm not as stressed as I would otherwise be.

by roel_v 8y ago

luckylion 8y ago

I don't know about other countries, but I've not seen the math come out in favor for Germany. 45% max federal income (with 43% quite easily reached), 19% VAT, high taxes on energy consumption. Even in high tax states like California, you don't usually reach those levels. Using the -yes, flawed- tax freedom day gives a pretty good picture, I believe.

CydeWeys 8y ago
Don't forget that in Germany your taxes pay for more services than in the US, like universal healthcare. Once you deduct out the cost of all the extra services that your taxes provide for you in Germany (and that they don't provide here), Germany wins. Healthcare is insanely expensive here in the US -- over $10k per person per year (so easily $20k per year for a family plan or more), some of which is born by employers.
- luckylion 8y ago
  > like universal healthcare Nope, we pay that on top, currently ~14% of your salary (half of which is paid directly by the employer), the same goes for pensions etc. You do get free healthcare only if you're unemployed, but that's not reality for most Germans.
- 0815test 8y ago
  The thing is that the taxes you pay in Germany don't pay for national defense - that's something that Germany gets for free by free-riding on US taxpayers. And the healthcare you get in socialized healthcare systems like the NHS or what they have in Germany is just barely sufficient - you could get the same deal in the U.S. by signing up with a HMO, and no one does because of how limiting it is. It's basically a wash, and the U.S., while worse at basic healthcare provision (due to pervasive regulatory capture in the whole system, which raises costs far higher than elsewhere) is still better at many other things.

Broken_Hippo 8y ago

honestly, I moved from the states to Norway. I'm pretty certain I'm paying the same or less overall. This is especially when I consider my healthcare is included in that tax. This simple things means I'm not as stressed as I would otherwise be.