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But you're ignoring a simple reality: people go to libraries because there is no other place to go. Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where h

by jMyles 8y ago

But you're ignoring a simple reality: people go to libraries because there is no other place to go. Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where hurting people are to be herded? That librarians are their outlet to be heard? We need more and richer commons, and particularly places that encourage healthy people to stay healthy and sick people to get well.

tomrod 8y ago
When did you decide that libraries are waystations for the wounded, as a member of society? I'm curious, because this underlies your notion. Personally, I see it in practical terms. Regarding the policy of using a library as a resource center, giving people access to computers and training materials is a pretty darn good idea for folks who want to enrich their careers or other domains of life.
crediblewitness 8y ago
The comment you are replying to answers your question. Q. Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where hurting people are to be herded? A. "...we find the idea of involuntarily committing psychiatric patients to be unpalatable these days..."
- tyingq 8y ago
  That's sort of right. It's not that we find it morally unacceptable to involuntarily commit people. It's that we don't want to pay for it. We shut down all the state mental hospitals. Which moved that population to jails, prisons, and the streets.
  - alejohausner 8y ago
    Taxpayers may have thought that mental asylums were expensive, but jails are very expensive. It's a lot cheaper to keep a schizophrenic in a state hospital. So I'm not sure that the decision to empty the state hospitals was driven by taxpayer stinginess. The whole thing is complicated. Drug companies in the 60s and 70s advertised their antipsychotics very hard. They persuaded the public that drugs could cure mental illness. That was a big force behind the emptying of the hospitals. Lots of short-sighted thinking.
    - tyingq 8y ago
      The 1965 Medicaid law changes excluded any reimbursement to psychiatric hospitals with more than 16 beds. That killed the state run hospitals. Running a 16 bed or less facility in a profitable way with Medicare reimbursement isn't possible. The money moved to other social programs.
    - CryptoPunk 8y ago
      Deinstitutionalization was not driven by taxpayers. Taxpayers have been fighting a losing war against growing social spending since 1913, and particularly since 1965. It was sociologists and other social commentators who considered it a form of oppression that drove the movement.
Spooky23 8y ago
The answer is that advocates “care” for these populations enough to ruin a public space that they don’t use in their leafy suburbs. (The suburban towns don’t put up with homeless and crazy people... they get picked up for their safety and shipped off to the city.) The rights of the crazy guy taking a dump in the middle of a library are more important than the people looking to read or learn or to have a place to be. But that “care” for these people doesn’t extend to actually providing meaningful ways to improve their lot.
macspoofing 8y ago
>Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where hurting people are to be herded? We didn't. We instead decided that we have no right to interfere with decisions made by adults who cannot make decisions on their own. >We need more and richer commons, and particularly places that encourage healthy people to stay healthy and sick people to get well. Like what? What is an example of 'commons' where drug addicts or sufferers from schizophrenia can decide to go 'to get well'.
panarky 8y ago
A Librarian's Guide to Homelessness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYiEEhhrFh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYiEEhhrFh4 Not just for librarians. A good mix of empathy and realism, it helped me understand the social issues much better.

by jMyles 8y ago

tomrod 8y ago

When did you decide that libraries are waystations for the wounded, as a member of society? I'm curious, because this underlies your notion. Personally, I see it in practical terms. Regarding the policy of using a library as a resource center, giving people access to computers and training materials is a pretty darn good idea for folks who want to enrich their careers or other domains of life.

crediblewitness 8y ago

The comment you are replying to answers your question. Q. Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where hurting people are to be herded? A. "...we find the idea of involuntarily committing psychiatric patients to be unpalatable these days..."

tyingq 8y ago
That's sort of right. It's not that we find it morally unacceptable to involuntarily commit people. It's that we don't want to pay for it. We shut down all the state mental hospitals. Which moved that population to jails, prisons, and the streets.
- alejohausner 8y ago
  Taxpayers may have thought that mental asylums were expensive, but jails are very expensive. It's a lot cheaper to keep a schizophrenic in a state hospital. So I'm not sure that the decision to empty the state hospitals was driven by taxpayer stinginess. The whole thing is complicated. Drug companies in the 60s and 70s advertised their antipsychotics very hard. They persuaded the public that drugs could cure mental illness. That was a big force behind the emptying of the hospitals. Lots of short-sighted thinking.
  - tyingq 8y ago
    The 1965 Medicaid law changes excluded any reimbursement to psychiatric hospitals with more than 16 beds. That killed the state run hospitals. Running a 16 bed or less facility in a profitable way with Medicare reimbursement isn't possible. The money moved to other social programs.
  - CryptoPunk 8y ago
    Deinstitutionalization was not driven by taxpayers. Taxpayers have been fighting a losing war against growing social spending since 1913, and particularly since 1965. It was sociologists and other social commentators who considered it a form of oppression that drove the movement.

Spooky23 8y ago

The answer is that advocates “care” for these populations enough to ruin a public space that they don’t use in their leafy suburbs. (The suburban towns don’t put up with homeless and crazy people... they get picked up for their safety and shipped off to the city.) The rights of the crazy guy taking a dump in the middle of a library are more important than the people looking to read or learn or to have a place to be. But that “care” for these people doesn’t extend to actually providing meaningful ways to improve their lot.

macspoofing 8y ago

>Why as a society have we decided that libraries are where hurting people are to be herded? We didn't. We instead decided that we have no right to interfere with decisions made by adults who cannot make decisions on their own. >We need more and richer commons, and particularly places that encourage healthy people to stay healthy and sick people to get well. Like what? What is an example of 'commons' where drug addicts or sufferers from schizophrenia can decide to go 'to get well'.

panarky 8y ago

A Librarian's Guide to Homelessness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYiEEhhrFh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYiEEhhrFh4 Not just for librarians. A good mix of empathy and realism, it helped me understand the social issues much better.