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And that is fine, again, the so called Dread Pirate Roberts 2 was arrested and convincted in the UK mostly based on info the US handed to the UK. The problem is

by chx 8y ago

And that is fine, again, the so called Dread Pirate Roberts 2 was arrested and convincted in the UK mostly based on info the US handed to the UK. The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did).

tptacek 8y ago
If you hack a bunch of computers in China, and China figures it out, and then you visit China, bet that China will arrest and imprison you. I don't see what's out of the ordinary about the fact pattern we're talking about here.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  American exceptionalism: America is the only country that does these things.
  - metafex 8y ago
    That's only half true. Chinese authorities will generally just not let you out of the country again, if the crime isn't severe enough. Also as a foreigner you won't necessarily be notified that there is even a court case against you and you can be fined/sentenced in your absence.
jlarocco 8y ago
It doesn't matter because (some of) his victims were in the United States when he committed crimes against them. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'd be upset if they didn't arrest him while he were here.
- ryanlopl 8y ago
  Where is it alleged that some of his victims were in the United States? I'm sorry, I just can't find such a claim in the court documents. In fact, the DOJ press release specifically names a bunch of countries that aren't the US https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-creating-kronos-banking-trojan https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-cr... >According to publically available information, since it was created, Kronos has been configured to exfiltrate user credentials associated with banking systems located in Canada, Germany, Poland, France, and the United Kingdom, among others countries. Of course, given the nature of the malware it's very likely that at least someone in the US was affected.
Barrin92 8y ago
>The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did). How is this a problem? if you cause material damages to Americans and you then go to the US the country is going to come after you. Why would the US not protect its citizens to the best of its ability and prosecute people who harmed them, even if they harmed them from a place that wasn't the US. We're talking about global financial crimes, they don't know any borders to begin with. If you kill someone outside of the US, and then you travel to the US, I'd be concerned if you wouldn't get arrested
- ryanlopl 8y ago
  As far as I'm aware it is not alleged that Marcus Hutchins caused material damages to Americans, it is alleged that he sold his malware to Americans. I could be wrong, but I don't think the federal government has ever claimed that any Americans were infected with Kronos.
  - celticninja 8y ago
    Not even that, he sold his malware, not to Americans specifically, or targeted at Americans at all, but he sold malware that someone subsequently used against US citizens. It's a stretch.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Killing someone outside the USA unless they are American I dont think it would end up that way. Unless it was in a US Embassy.
- A2017U1 8y ago
  I'd love to see someone name one US company that faced material damages as claimed in this comment. It really doesn't seem to be the case. World police strikes again.

by chx 8y ago

tptacek 8y ago

If you hack a bunch of computers in China, and China figures it out, and then you visit China, bet that China will arrest and imprison you. I don't see what's out of the ordinary about the fact pattern we're talking about here.

tedunangst 8y ago
American exceptionalism: America is the only country that does these things.
- metafex 8y ago
  That's only half true. Chinese authorities will generally just not let you out of the country again, if the crime isn't severe enough. Also as a foreigner you won't necessarily be notified that there is even a court case against you and you can be fined/sentenced in your absence.

jlarocco 8y ago

It doesn't matter because (some of) his victims were in the United States when he committed crimes against them. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'd be upset if they didn't arrest him while he were here.

ryanlopl 8y ago
Where is it alleged that some of his victims were in the United States? I'm sorry, I just can't find such a claim in the court documents. In fact, the DOJ press release specifically names a bunch of countries that aren't the US https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-creating-kronos-banking-trojan https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-cr... >According to publically available information, since it was created, Kronos has been configured to exfiltrate user credentials associated with banking systems located in Canada, Germany, Poland, France, and the United Kingdom, among others countries. Of course, given the nature of the malware it's very likely that at least someone in the US was affected.

Barrin92 8y ago

>The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did). How is this a problem? if you cause material damages to Americans and you then go to the US the country is going to come after you. Why would the US not protect its citizens to the best of its ability and prosecute people who harmed them, even if they harmed them from a place that wasn't the US. We're talking about global financial crimes, they don't know any borders to begin with. If you kill someone outside of the US, and then you travel to the US, I'd be concerned if you wouldn't get arrested

ryanlopl 8y ago
As far as I'm aware it is not alleged that Marcus Hutchins caused material damages to Americans, it is alleged that he sold his malware to Americans. I could be wrong, but I don't think the federal government has ever claimed that any Americans were infected with Kronos.
- celticninja 8y ago
  Not even that, he sold his malware, not to Americans specifically, or targeted at Americans at all, but he sold malware that someone subsequently used against US citizens. It's a stretch.
giancarlostoro 8y ago
Killing someone outside the USA unless they are American I dont think it would end up that way. Unless it was in a US Embassy.
A2017U1 8y ago
I'd love to see someone name one US company that faced material damages as claimed in this comment. It really doesn't seem to be the case. World police strikes again.