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FWIW his crimes didn't target any country specifically, so he could've faced trouble anywhere in the world. There's not necessarily anything wrong with prosecu

FWIW his crimes didn't target any country specifically, so he could've faced trouble anywhere in the world. There's not necessarily anything wrong with prosecuting him in the US, but presumably the US authorities could've just as well spared themselves the work and referred this to the UK authorities in whose jurisdiction the crimes were committed.

chx 7y ago
And that is fine, again, the so called Dread Pirate Roberts 2 was arrested and convincted in the UK mostly based on info the US handed to the UK. The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did).
- tptacek 7y ago
  If you hack a bunch of computers in China, and China figures it out, and then you visit China, bet that China will arrest and imprison you. I don't see what's out of the ordinary about the fact pattern we're talking about here.
  - tedunangst 7y ago
    American exceptionalism: America is the only country that does these things.
    - metafex 7y ago
      That's only half true. Chinese authorities will generally just not let you out of the country again, if the crime isn't severe enough. Also as a foreigner you won't necessarily be notified that there is even a court case against you and you can be fined/sentenced in your absence.
- jlarocco 7y ago
  It doesn't matter because (some of) his victims were in the United States when he committed crimes against them. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'd be upset if they didn't arrest him while he were here.
  - ryanlopl 7y ago
    Where is it alleged that some of his victims were in the United States? I'm sorry, I just can't find such a claim in the court documents. In fact, the DOJ press release specifically names a bunch of countries that aren't the US https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-creating-kronos-banking-trojan https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-cr... >According to publically available information, since it was created, Kronos has been configured to exfiltrate user credentials associated with banking systems located in Canada, Germany, Poland, France, and the United Kingdom, among others countries. Of course, given the nature of the malware it's very likely that at least someone in the US was affected.
- Barrin92 7y ago
  >The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did). How is this a problem? if you cause material damages to Americans and you then go to the US the country is going to come after you. Why would the US not protect its citizens to the best of its ability and prosecute people who harmed them, even if they harmed them from a place that wasn't the US. We're talking about global financial crimes, they don't know any borders to begin with. If you kill someone outside of the US, and then you travel to the US, I'd be concerned if you wouldn't get arrested
  - ryanlopl 7y ago
    As far as I'm aware it is not alleged that Marcus Hutchins caused material damages to Americans, it is alleged that he sold his malware to Americans. I could be wrong, but I don't think the federal government has ever claimed that any Americans were infected with Kronos.
    - celticninja 7y ago
      Not even that, he sold his malware, not to Americans specifically, or targeted at Americans at all, but he sold malware that someone subsequently used against US citizens. It's a stretch.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    Killing someone outside the USA unless they are American I dont think it would end up that way. Unless it was in a US Embassy.
  - A2017U1 7y ago
    I'd love to see someone name one US company that faced material damages as claimed in this comment. It really doesn't seem to be the case. World police strikes again.
A2017U1 7y ago
I find it hard to believe anyone thinks it's reasonable "anywhere in the world" can keep prosecuting the guy until he dies. Taken to the extreme with this logic he should be extradited across the globe for decades for any public prosecutor to go to town on, though I guess that type of fear is exactly the intended effect of witch trial justice. The situation in reverse with a US citizen charged in a foreign country despite causing no harm to them is unlikely to garner the same response. American exceptionalism at it's finest.

chx 7y ago

And that is fine, again, the so called Dread Pirate Roberts 2 was arrested and convincted in the UK mostly based on info the US handed to the UK. The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did).

tptacek 7y ago
If you hack a bunch of computers in China, and China figures it out, and then you visit China, bet that China will arrest and imprison you. I don't see what's out of the ordinary about the fact pattern we're talking about here.
- tedunangst 7y ago
  American exceptionalism: America is the only country that does these things.
  - metafex 7y ago
    That's only half true. Chinese authorities will generally just not let you out of the country again, if the crime isn't severe enough. Also as a foreigner you won't necessarily be notified that there is even a court case against you and you can be fined/sentenced in your absence.
jlarocco 7y ago
It doesn't matter because (some of) his victims were in the United States when he committed crimes against them. Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'd be upset if they didn't arrest him while he were here.
- ryanlopl 7y ago
  Where is it alleged that some of his victims were in the United States? I'm sorry, I just can't find such a claim in the court documents. In fact, the DOJ press release specifically names a bunch of countries that aren't the US https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-creating-kronos-banking-trojan https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/man-charged-his-role-cr... >According to publically available information, since it was created, Kronos has been configured to exfiltrate user credentials associated with banking systems located in Canada, Germany, Poland, France, and the United Kingdom, among others countries. Of course, given the nature of the malware it's very likely that at least someone in the US was affected.
Barrin92 7y ago
>The problem is the US arresting someone who was. not. in. the. USA. when committing the crime (if he did). How is this a problem? if you cause material damages to Americans and you then go to the US the country is going to come after you. Why would the US not protect its citizens to the best of its ability and prosecute people who harmed them, even if they harmed them from a place that wasn't the US. We're talking about global financial crimes, they don't know any borders to begin with. If you kill someone outside of the US, and then you travel to the US, I'd be concerned if you wouldn't get arrested
- ryanlopl 7y ago
  As far as I'm aware it is not alleged that Marcus Hutchins caused material damages to Americans, it is alleged that he sold his malware to Americans. I could be wrong, but I don't think the federal government has ever claimed that any Americans were infected with Kronos.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    Not even that, he sold his malware, not to Americans specifically, or targeted at Americans at all, but he sold malware that someone subsequently used against US citizens. It's a stretch.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  Killing someone outside the USA unless they are American I dont think it would end up that way. Unless it was in a US Embassy.
- A2017U1 7y ago
  I'd love to see someone name one US company that faced material damages as claimed in this comment. It really doesn't seem to be the case. World police strikes again.

A2017U1 7y ago

I find it hard to believe anyone thinks it's reasonable "anywhere in the world" can keep prosecuting the guy until he dies. Taken to the extreme with this logic he should be extradited across the globe for decades for any public prosecutor to go to town on, though I guess that type of fear is exactly the intended effect of witch trial justice. The situation in reverse with a US citizen charged in a foreign country despite causing no harm to them is unlikely to garner the same response. American exceptionalism at it's finest.