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Plea bargained. That's how its done in the USA folks. At least in over 90% of cases. The concept of having a fair trial and your day in court is a thing of the

Plea bargained. That's how its done in the USA folks. At least in over 90% of cases. The concept of having a fair trial and your day in court is a thing of the past. Amazing it took so long.

wrinkl3 8y ago
I've been following Marcus on Twitter for the last couple of years, and he's been sounding increasingly desperate lately. Regardless of whether he actually authored Kronos, I could easily see him taking the plea bargain as a way out. I strongly feel that a malware researcher who stopped WannaCry and spends his free time making reverse engineering tutorials shouldn't go to prison because of a trojan he wrote as a teenager (assuming he really did write it).
- tptacek 8y ago
  He's charged with a money-making scheme he ran into his early 20s.
- meowface 8y ago
  He not only wrote the malware but personally sold it for $7000 per copy to botnet operators and other kinds of cybercriminals to facilitate bank account theft and fraud. He's changed now and is trying to be a force for good, but he definitely made mistakes in his past.
lloydde 8y ago
Not having grown up in the US, I listened in fascination to the first episodes of Serial season 3, “... Cleveland. Not for one extraordinary case; instead, Serial wanted to tackle the whole criminal justice system. To do that we figured we’d need to look at something different: ordinary cases.” After a few episodes I had to take a break. It is so upsetting. Justice is not a reality. https://serialpodcast.org/season-three/about https://serialpodcast.org/season-three/about ““Charge stacking” is a process by which police and prosecutors create a case with numerous charges or numerous instances of the same charge to convince the defendant that the risk of not pleading guilty is intolerable. The defendant may be convinced to plead guilty to a few of the charges in return for not being prosecuted for the remaining charges.“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom_Workgroup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom_Workgroup
- tptacek 8y ago
  Hutchins had exceptionally talented representation (one of his lawyers, whose name appears on the plea agreement, is a nationally recognized authority). There is no chance that "charge stacking" intimidated him; his lawyers certainly would have informed him that the charges he faced would group, and that he'd in effect serve time based on the guideline range for the worst charge he was convicted of.
  - lloydde 8y ago
    This is really good information, though I marvel at your certainty that Hutchins was unintimidated. I suspect few have the constitution you suggest to stay a rational actor when facing years behind jail. It sounds like a sentencing date has not been announced: "According to a copy of Hutchins’ plea agreement, both charges each carry a maximum of up to five years in prison, and up to a $250,000 fine, and up to one year of supervised release. However, those charges are likely to be substantially tempered by federal sentencing guidelines, and may take into account time already served in detention. It remains unclear when he will be sentenced." https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/marcus-malwaretech-hutchins-pleads-guilty-to-writing-selling-banking-malware/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/marcus-malwaretech-hutch...
    - tptacek 8y ago
      I'm not saying he was confident about the whole process. I'm saying that he was certainly informed as to how federal charges group in sentencing. In federal sentencing, in general, and in particular with these charges, "like" counts group. In effect, you serve the time for the "worst" charge you're convicted of. You do not add the sentences for all the counts together to determine a sentencing. As the article says, and as you'll find if you read the plea agreement and then consult the chart in the federal sentencing guidelines, he's not facing anything close to 5 years.
      - lloydde 8y ago
        Wow tptacek, thank you for all the insights. It’s a shame then that Kreb uses softening language “likely to be” when there is such confidence that Hutchins will serve little time. Though I imagine all jail time is slow time. I’m only learning now how separate the federal prison system is and it appears to have somewhat better conditions.
tptacek 8y ago
The plea agreement includes an "Attachment A" detailing the case against him, which isn't weak: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.77855/gov.uscourts.wied.77855.124.0.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.77855/... In particular, there are CIs with online chat transcripts corroborating the accusations, and Hutchins offered a partial confession the day of his arrest. Hutchins also had excellent representation, including Marcia Hofmann.
- 13415 8y ago
  That's not the OPs point. The plea bargain system is principally unjust. If prosecutors had enough evidence of some crimes, then the accused should be tried for them and not go freely. If prosecutors don't have enough evidence for some of the alleged crimes they stack up, then the charges should be dropped and the accused should only be tried for the crimes for which there is sufficient evidence. The please bargain system is nothing but institutionalized blackmail, and many innocent people have become its victims.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    How exactly would Hutchins benefit from a system in which he was essentially required to take this case to trial? Stipulate that the FBI has him dead to rights, which it sure seems like they do. Then, in this case, the plea bargain system helped him: it enabled him to agree with prosecutors not to try him on all 10 counts, and to reduce his sentencing level, which prosecutors would not have an incentive to do otherwise.
    - 13415 8y ago
      The idea of justice is not to provide some benefits to people who where accused of some crimes. If someone has committed a crime, then justice system shouldn't help him. If on the other hand the person has not committed besaid crime, then the justice system ought to carefully prevent wrong accusations and ensure a fair trial. The please bargain system does neither of that.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Plea bargained. That's how its done in the USA folks. At least in over 90% of cases. The concept of having a fair trial and your day in court is a thing of the past. Amazing it took so long.

wrinkl3 8y ago

I've been following Marcus on Twitter for the last couple of years, and he's been sounding increasingly desperate lately. Regardless of whether he actually authored Kronos, I could easily see him taking the plea bargain as a way out. I strongly feel that a malware researcher who stopped WannaCry and spends his free time making reverse engineering tutorials shouldn't go to prison because of a trojan he wrote as a teenager (assuming he really did write it).

tptacek 8y ago
He's charged with a money-making scheme he ran into his early 20s.
meowface 8y ago
He not only wrote the malware but personally sold it for $7000 per copy to botnet operators and other kinds of cybercriminals to facilitate bank account theft and fraud. He's changed now and is trying to be a force for good, but he definitely made mistakes in his past.

lloydde 8y ago

Not having grown up in the US, I listened in fascination to the first episodes of Serial season 3, “... Cleveland. Not for one extraordinary case; instead, Serial wanted to tackle the whole criminal justice system. To do that we figured we’d need to look at something different: ordinary cases.” After a few episodes I had to take a break. It is so upsetting. Justice is not a reality. https://serialpodcast.org/season-three/about https://serialpodcast.org/season-three/about ““Charge stacking” is a process by which police and prosecutors create a case with numerous charges or numerous instances of the same charge to convince the defendant that the risk of not pleading guilty is intolerable. The defendant may be convinced to plead guilty to a few of the charges in return for not being prosecuted for the remaining charges.“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom_Workgroup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtroom_Workgroup

tptacek 8y ago
Hutchins had exceptionally talented representation (one of his lawyers, whose name appears on the plea agreement, is a nationally recognized authority). There is no chance that "charge stacking" intimidated him; his lawyers certainly would have informed him that the charges he faced would group, and that he'd in effect serve time based on the guideline range for the worst charge he was convicted of.
- lloydde 8y ago
  This is really good information, though I marvel at your certainty that Hutchins was unintimidated. I suspect few have the constitution you suggest to stay a rational actor when facing years behind jail. It sounds like a sentencing date has not been announced: "According to a copy of Hutchins’ plea agreement, both charges each carry a maximum of up to five years in prison, and up to a $250,000 fine, and up to one year of supervised release. However, those charges are likely to be substantially tempered by federal sentencing guidelines, and may take into account time already served in detention. It remains unclear when he will be sentenced." https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/marcus-malwaretech-hutchins-pleads-guilty-to-writing-selling-banking-malware/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/marcus-malwaretech-hutch...
  - tptacek 8y ago
    I'm not saying he was confident about the whole process. I'm saying that he was certainly informed as to how federal charges group in sentencing. In federal sentencing, in general, and in particular with these charges, "like" counts group. In effect, you serve the time for the "worst" charge you're convicted of. You do not add the sentences for all the counts together to determine a sentencing. As the article says, and as you'll find if you read the plea agreement and then consult the chart in the federal sentencing guidelines, he's not facing anything close to 5 years.
    - lloydde 8y ago
      Wow tptacek, thank you for all the insights. It’s a shame then that Kreb uses softening language “likely to be” when there is such confidence that Hutchins will serve little time. Though I imagine all jail time is slow time. I’m only learning now how separate the federal prison system is and it appears to have somewhat better conditions.

tptacek 8y ago

The plea agreement includes an "Attachment A" detailing the case against him, which isn't weak: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.77855/gov.uscourts.wied.77855.124.0.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.77855/... In particular, there are CIs with online chat transcripts corroborating the accusations, and Hutchins offered a partial confession the day of his arrest. Hutchins also had excellent representation, including Marcia Hofmann.

13415 8y ago
That's not the OPs point. The plea bargain system is principally unjust. If prosecutors had enough evidence of some crimes, then the accused should be tried for them and not go freely. If prosecutors don't have enough evidence for some of the alleged crimes they stack up, then the charges should be dropped and the accused should only be tried for the crimes for which there is sufficient evidence. The please bargain system is nothing but institutionalized blackmail, and many innocent people have become its victims.
- tptacek 8y ago
  How exactly would Hutchins benefit from a system in which he was essentially required to take this case to trial? Stipulate that the FBI has him dead to rights, which it sure seems like they do. Then, in this case, the plea bargain system helped him: it enabled him to agree with prosecutors not to try him on all 10 counts, and to reduce his sentencing level, which prosecutors would not have an incentive to do otherwise.
  - 13415 8y ago
    The idea of justice is not to provide some benefits to people who where accused of some crimes. If someone has committed a crime, then justice system shouldn't help him. If on the other hand the person has not committed besaid crime, then the justice system ought to carefully prevent wrong accusations and ensure a fair trial. The please bargain system does neither of that.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]