6 ms·

Have an army and munitions? I don't think Seasteaders are opposed to defense.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
But at that point to really be effective you're probably going to need to recreate the governmental structures you're trying to escape from.
- klipt 8y ago
  Right, but apart from the national defense, hospitals, schools, roads, subways, water, electricity, sanitation, and public order - what has the government ever done for us?
  - csharpminor 8y ago
    They gave us the aqueduct?
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Of course they gave us the aqueduct. That goes without saying!
      - logfromblammo 8y ago
        What's the correct Latin grammar for "Romans, go home"?
        LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
        Romani domus!
        logfromblammo 8y ago
        "Romanes eunt domus?" That's more "people called Romanes, they go the house". You need the imperative and accusative: "Romani ite domum". Now write it 100 times.
  - sneak 8y ago
    The government didn’t do those things for us. The government used violence to force us to pay for those things, regardless of whether we wanted to or not, among many other things we were also forced to pay for.
    - warbaker 8y ago
      I am glad the government forced us to pay for those things. That's a lot of the job!
      - chlvsl 8y ago
        Its only a job if you contract them voluntarily. What if the government forced us all to buy BigMacs every day under threat of jail time? Some people would certainly be happy that they are being fed “for free” (deducted prepay for two weeks of government bigmacs from each paycheck + convenience fee + online payment fee + tax), but you might not. Further, this is also assuming government finds the most effective solutions at the lowest cost. Usually they just do the latter to meet the absolute bare minimum. There’s no way for government services to be zero cost, so they assign their own overhead. So now we have a Department of Burgers in every state. Everyone has to buy them every day, if you dont you go to prison, you cant see the cost breakdown of the bigmacs and the quality is inferior to private BigMacs. Some people who love bigmacs and would buy them anyways say “I am glad the government forced me to pay for them. Thats a lot of the job!”, and those who would never buy them find negative value from such a proposal. What I’m trying to say is that even if you anecdotally agree, it does not make it right.
      - ccffph 8y ago
        Its only a job if you contract them voluntarily. What if the government forced us all to buy BigMacs every day under threat of jail time? Some people would certainly be happy that they are being fed “for free” (deducted prepay for two weeks of government bigmacs from each paycheck + convenience fee + online payment fee + tax), but you might not. Further, this is also assuming government finds the most effective solutions at the lowest cost. Usually they just do the latter to meet the absolute bare minimum. There’s no way for government services to be zero cost, so they assign their own overhead. So now we have a Department of Burgers in every state. Everyone has to buy them every day, if you dont you go to prison, you cant see the cost breakdown of the bigmacs and the quality is inferior to private BigMacs. Some people who love bigmacs and would buy them anyways say “I am glad the government forced me to pay for them. Thats a lot of the job!”, and those who would never buy them find negative value from such a proposal. What I’m trying to say is that even if you anecdotally agree, it does not make it right.
  - avip 8y ago
    Bridges?
- trevyn 8y ago
  Perhaps the essential components of pirate defense can be provided more inexpensively with today’s technology than in the past, and large organizations move slowly to adopt efficiencies without an external forcing function.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Obviously not, since since if "components of pirate defense can be provided more inexpensively with today’s technology", then the same technology is available to the pirates...
    - trevyn 8y ago
      Offense and defense technologies are not symmetric.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        Historically they have progressed more or less in tandem in a sort of "arms race" (in fact that's where the term "arms race" come from).
throwaway2048 8y ago
I think nearby nations might have some objections about people attempting to build private armies. (read: aren't going to allow it to happen)
- roywiggins 8y ago
  Private armies* are certainly tolerated... when they're being hired by states, anyway. *or, uh, "security contractors"
CydeWeys 8y ago
By the time you have an army you're a government yourself, and you're gonna need to levy taxes, draft conscripts, etc. Simply put, a non-nation-state can't bring the resources to bear to fight against a nation state. They're just gonna get rolled.
- d1zzy 8y ago
  That's only if you want a standing army. Standing armies are the root of civilization, and of all evil, depends on how you look at it (I actually think both are true, since they aren't exclusive).
  - brixon 8y ago
    If you don't have a standing army then you better have treaties with ones that have standing armies. The small kid does not get picked on if he has the right friends.
- LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
  Actually- are you sure about this? Armys- get strange, like most of them will consist of some drone ships and high tech weapons very soon. That is something, that anyone can build with a little hi-tech manufacturing power. Every third world country by now can buy a chinese tomahawk version. Ever increasing artefact power actually lowers the playing field here.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Does it matter, though? If you have access to something that gives you effective sovereignty, whether it's million-man armies or drone ships, you are a de facto government.

But at that point to really be effective you're probably going to need to recreate the governmental structures you're trying to escape from.

klipt 8y ago
Right, but apart from the national defense, hospitals, schools, roads, subways, water, electricity, sanitation, and public order - what has the government ever done for us?
- csharpminor 8y ago
  They gave us the aqueduct?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Of course they gave us the aqueduct. That goes without saying!
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      What's the correct Latin grammar for "Romans, go home"?
      - LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
        Romani domus!
        logfromblammo 8y ago
        "Romanes eunt domus?" That's more "people called Romanes, they go the house". You need the imperative and accusative: "Romani ite domum". Now write it 100 times.
- sneak 8y ago
  The government didn’t do those things for us. The government used violence to force us to pay for those things, regardless of whether we wanted to or not, among many other things we were also forced to pay for.
  - warbaker 8y ago
    I am glad the government forced us to pay for those things. That's a lot of the job!
    - chlvsl 8y ago
      Its only a job if you contract them voluntarily. What if the government forced us all to buy BigMacs every day under threat of jail time? Some people would certainly be happy that they are being fed “for free” (deducted prepay for two weeks of government bigmacs from each paycheck + convenience fee + online payment fee + tax), but you might not. Further, this is also assuming government finds the most effective solutions at the lowest cost. Usually they just do the latter to meet the absolute bare minimum. There’s no way for government services to be zero cost, so they assign their own overhead. So now we have a Department of Burgers in every state. Everyone has to buy them every day, if you dont you go to prison, you cant see the cost breakdown of the bigmacs and the quality is inferior to private BigMacs. Some people who love bigmacs and would buy them anyways say “I am glad the government forced me to pay for them. Thats a lot of the job!”, and those who would never buy them find negative value from such a proposal. What I’m trying to say is that even if you anecdotally agree, it does not make it right.
    - ccffph 8y ago
      Its only a job if you contract them voluntarily. What if the government forced us all to buy BigMacs every day under threat of jail time? Some people would certainly be happy that they are being fed “for free” (deducted prepay for two weeks of government bigmacs from each paycheck + convenience fee + online payment fee + tax), but you might not. Further, this is also assuming government finds the most effective solutions at the lowest cost. Usually they just do the latter to meet the absolute bare minimum. There’s no way for government services to be zero cost, so they assign their own overhead. So now we have a Department of Burgers in every state. Everyone has to buy them every day, if you dont you go to prison, you cant see the cost breakdown of the bigmacs and the quality is inferior to private BigMacs. Some people who love bigmacs and would buy them anyways say “I am glad the government forced me to pay for them. Thats a lot of the job!”, and those who would never buy them find negative value from such a proposal. What I’m trying to say is that even if you anecdotally agree, it does not make it right.
- avip 8y ago
  Bridges?
trevyn 8y ago
Perhaps the essential components of pirate defense can be provided more inexpensively with today’s technology than in the past, and large organizations move slowly to adopt efficiencies without an external forcing function.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Obviously not, since since if "components of pirate defense can be provided more inexpensively with today’s technology", then the same technology is available to the pirates...
  - trevyn 8y ago
    Offense and defense technologies are not symmetric.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Historically they have progressed more or less in tandem in a sort of "arms race" (in fact that's where the term "arms race" come from).

throwaway2048 8y ago

I think nearby nations might have some objections about people attempting to build private armies. (read: aren't going to allow it to happen)

roywiggins 8y ago
Private armies* are certainly tolerated... when they're being hired by states, anyway. *or, uh, "security contractors"

CydeWeys 8y ago

By the time you have an army you're a government yourself, and you're gonna need to levy taxes, draft conscripts, etc. Simply put, a non-nation-state can't bring the resources to bear to fight against a nation state. They're just gonna get rolled.

d1zzy 8y ago
That's only if you want a standing army. Standing armies are the root of civilization, and of all evil, depends on how you look at it (I actually think both are true, since they aren't exclusive).
- brixon 8y ago
  If you don't have a standing army then you better have treaties with ones that have standing armies. The small kid does not get picked on if he has the right friends.
LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
Actually- are you sure about this? Armys- get strange, like most of them will consist of some drone ships and high tech weapons very soon. That is something, that anyone can build with a little hi-tech manufacturing power. Every third world country by now can buy a chinese tomahawk version. Ever increasing artefact power actually lowers the playing field here.
- int_19h 8y ago
  Does it matter, though? If you have access to something that gives you effective sovereignty, whether it's million-man armies or drone ships, you are a de facto government.