7 ms·

The Benjamin Button review of improvements in older Macs compared with newer ones: https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro

The Benjamin Button review of improvements in older Macs compared with newer ones: https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/ https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...

tzakrajs 8y ago
Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.
- arbie 8y ago
  Keyboard and processor are unrelated dimensions of improvement.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Probably still come out ahead with the additional time spent slower processing entails compared to Genius Bar visits and repair times. Ferrari vs Camry sort of thing.
- gnicholas 8y ago
  I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.
  - randallsquared 8y ago
    Speed and utilization are not the same. My 2018 MBP was a great speed improvement over the 2015 MBP I previously used, even in cases where the 2015 MBP wasn't using all cores (which really rarely happened, since for the workloads I use, multiple Electron apps and Docker for Mac, typing in Slack would start stuttering as soon as multiple cores were in constant use). I don't think it was ever usable enough at 6-7 cores maxed for me to start new things to try to use that last core...
    - faizshah 8y ago
      I've had the opposite experience. I use a mid 2012 retina that I bought used and have spilled water on 4 times. I keep 10 chrome windows open with around 15-20 tabs open each. In addition to microsoft word, sketch/figma, atom/pycharm/rubymine/intellij, multiple preview books, multiple iterm instances, postgres, and the Books app. I don't have any trouble except when using docker for mac (which I just use the cloud for now) and photoshop. I would like to get a new laptop though.
      - randallsquared 8y ago
        > I don't have any trouble except when using docker for mac That's... the same experience? Not "opposite", for sure.
    - hollander 8y ago
      If you spend big bucks on a MBP, and still have problems with performance, you could start using the cloud or a home server for that docker stuff. Scaleway has reasonable priced servers, or you buy something like a simple Zotac Mini PC to run as linux server at home.
      - hultner 8y ago
        Do you happen to know any great guide for setting it up properly? I did it a while back with docker machine but I remember it being quite the hassle and didn't work as smoothly as a locale instance, damn shame since docker is the number obesity leading reason I keep running out of ram on my laptop.
        arbie 8y ago
        I have had a good time with Cloud9, now part of AWS. I default to t2.nano and scale it up for large bursts of workload.
  - 0az 8y ago
    This is exactly why I went for a 2015 MBP instead of a newer one last year. Having a better keyboard and physical escape/function keys (plus the significantly lower price) outweighed the lack of USB C/Thunderbolt 3. This may have a shorter "tail", in terms of long term utility, but hopefully there'll be a MBP refresh at around that time. If that is still found wanting, I suppose I can join the Thinkpad+Linux club.
    - stuartd 8y ago
      I did the same, for the same reason. It’s a joy to use and every time I read one of the (so many) articles on the MB butterfly keyboard, I am reminded that I made the right choice. The 2015 MBP really is the best Mac laptop - which if you want a Mac rather than a Linux box, the best laptop ever - https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever
      - Maxion 8y ago
        I also chose this route last June. My coworkers upgraded to the new rendition later and I've since listened to them complain about the keyboard and mess around with adapters in literally every meeting room. The hdmi port is incredibly useful, I've never had issues in any meeting room and it's inclusion means I never have to carry adapters around. Not so with my colleagues, they need one even just to share files with a thumb drive. I hope someone at Apple comes to their senses and makes the next big refresh of the Pro turn it into a Pro computer again.
  - TheOperator 8y ago
    The lack of emphasis of good input is absolutely maddening when people were buying macbooks with lousy specs for the price, low-res displays for the price, who absolutely loved the fantastic trackpad, adequete keyboard, and good build quality. Now the devices are getting more fragile and the keyboards aren't even average they're junk. The touchbar is shit. Apple seems to be regressing to their form over function puck mouse days. Meanwhile desktop consumers are realising how undervalued input has been for a long time and are buying $100 keyboards in great quantities.
    - therein 8y ago
      > The touchbar is shit. It really is. Way to go making it impossible to (un)mute and adjust the volume without opening my eyes. And in exchange of what, really? The privilege of losing the physical Esc?
      - breatheoften 8y ago
        Not to mention the touchid sensor is completely terrible. It never - ever - works for me. I never had this level of problem with touchid on the iPhone ... The new iCloud Keychain password prompt, which shows only touchid with password prompt hidden behind a button is fucking terrible — along with the auto submit behavior after filling out the form - which very often results in extra password required popups. I’m starting to wonder if anyone at apple is using this stuff — maybe corporate disabled all these features for security reasons and apple developers actually aren’t allowed to use in practice ...?
        cerberusss 8y ago
        I use TouchID all the time. I think yours is simply broken, to be honest.
        vlovich123 8y ago
        I have found the TouchID to be similarly unreliable. It's possible thought it's a mixture of different human factors (iPhone TouchID is easier to touch the same way every time) and more immature hardware.
  - criddell 8y ago
    I don't need peak processor power, but I sure would like a modern processor underclocked for battery life.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    You can get the benefits of a faster processor without constantly maxing it out. A faster clocked processor will complete tasks faster. If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, but if you do any type of compilation the extra cores and speed will make a significant difference. In the case of node and client side development, the extra speed can shave seconds off hot code injection and compilation times on every code change (every time you save the file).
    - admax88q 8y ago
      > If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, Even the modern web continually maxes many processors. Google Docs/Sheets, Slack, Hangouts. "Just browsing the web" has become a compute intensive task.
- vernie 8y ago
  The only substantial difference between my 2011 MBP and 2018 MBP for what I use it for (browsing the web, the lightest of computation) is that the 2018 model has really sharp edges that make me hate carrying it around. For my heavier workloads even the latest, top-of-the-line MBP is completely inadequate.
  - TheOperator 8y ago
    Which is a shame since MBPs were once the fastest Windows laptops on the market. I don't think the form factor really allows for a true workstation laptop anymore akin to say the Lenovo W series.
  - Simulacra 8y ago
    My personal laptop is a 2012 MacBook Pro. Still going strong.
- oarabbus_ 8y ago
  Pretty asinine comment. Most heavy duty computing is done on cloud systems these days.
  - astrodust 8y ago
    There are niches like video editing, but those are increasingly becoming GPU dependent.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- robdachshund 8y ago
  I don't know if you've noticed but Intel chips have hardly improved over the years. They've been content with die shrinks for since sandy bridge. And even then, they've had to turn off the speculative hacks because of spectre and meltdown. Apple also doesn't care about thermal performance. Look at how their i9 models throttle and perform worse than the i7 variants. If you're buying apple you aren't putting performance first and foremost. It's either because of mac os or the design. You've been able to buy much faster windows laptops for far less money since they switched to intel. That's why a lot of devs have switched to lenovo.
m463 8y ago
I think my 2007-ish macbook pro had the best keyboard of all. Light action concave keys I don't think that the superiority of concave keys gets the attention it deserves. - the keys fit your finger better - the force of the keypress is evenly distributed across the surface of your finger, especially as the key bottoms out. New keyboards deform your finger pad as you press down and are less comfortable. - the concave shape helps you locate the keys and center your fingers by feel. This leads to more accurate finger placement initially and as you type. You will type more accurately.
- bproven 8y ago
  Sounds simliar to the Thinkpad keys/keyboards - the best in the industry IMO. Mac trackpad + Thinkpad keyboard = perfect laptop :)
  - godzillabrennus 8y ago
    If you are speaking about the 7 row Thinkpad keyboards from before the Lenovo acquisition I totally agree.
- icedchai 8y ago
  yes, this early style MacBook Pro keyboard was my favorite, as well! I could never understand the preference for the newer ("chiclet") keyboards.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
A comic from the same month making the same point: http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2016/10/29/the-new-macbooks-are-here/ http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2016/10/29/the-new-macbooks-ar... "We want to make a laptop so thin you'll close it and never find it again."

tzakrajs 8y ago

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

arbie 8y ago
Keyboard and processor are unrelated dimensions of improvement.
toomuchtodo 8y ago
Probably still come out ahead with the additional time spent slower processing entails compared to Genius Bar visits and repair times. Ferrari vs Camry sort of thing.
gnicholas 8y ago
I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.
- randallsquared 8y ago
  Speed and utilization are not the same. My 2018 MBP was a great speed improvement over the 2015 MBP I previously used, even in cases where the 2015 MBP wasn't using all cores (which really rarely happened, since for the workloads I use, multiple Electron apps and Docker for Mac, typing in Slack would start stuttering as soon as multiple cores were in constant use). I don't think it was ever usable enough at 6-7 cores maxed for me to start new things to try to use that last core...
  - faizshah 8y ago
    I've had the opposite experience. I use a mid 2012 retina that I bought used and have spilled water on 4 times. I keep 10 chrome windows open with around 15-20 tabs open each. In addition to microsoft word, sketch/figma, atom/pycharm/rubymine/intellij, multiple preview books, multiple iterm instances, postgres, and the Books app. I don't have any trouble except when using docker for mac (which I just use the cloud for now) and photoshop. I would like to get a new laptop though.
    - randallsquared 8y ago
      > I don't have any trouble except when using docker for mac That's... the same experience? Not "opposite", for sure.
  - hollander 8y ago
    If you spend big bucks on a MBP, and still have problems with performance, you could start using the cloud or a home server for that docker stuff. Scaleway has reasonable priced servers, or you buy something like a simple Zotac Mini PC to run as linux server at home.
    - hultner 8y ago
      Do you happen to know any great guide for setting it up properly? I did it a while back with docker machine but I remember it being quite the hassle and didn't work as smoothly as a locale instance, damn shame since docker is the number obesity leading reason I keep running out of ram on my laptop.
      - arbie 8y ago
        I have had a good time with Cloud9, now part of AWS. I default to t2.nano and scale it up for large bursts of workload.
- 0az 8y ago
  This is exactly why I went for a 2015 MBP instead of a newer one last year. Having a better keyboard and physical escape/function keys (plus the significantly lower price) outweighed the lack of USB C/Thunderbolt 3. This may have a shorter "tail", in terms of long term utility, but hopefully there'll be a MBP refresh at around that time. If that is still found wanting, I suppose I can join the Thinkpad+Linux club.
  - stuartd 8y ago
    I did the same, for the same reason. It’s a joy to use and every time I read one of the (so many) articles on the MB butterfly keyboard, I am reminded that I made the right choice. The 2015 MBP really is the best Mac laptop - which if you want a Mac rather than a Linux box, the best laptop ever - https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever
    - Maxion 8y ago
      I also chose this route last June. My coworkers upgraded to the new rendition later and I've since listened to them complain about the keyboard and mess around with adapters in literally every meeting room. The hdmi port is incredibly useful, I've never had issues in any meeting room and it's inclusion means I never have to carry adapters around. Not so with my colleagues, they need one even just to share files with a thumb drive. I hope someone at Apple comes to their senses and makes the next big refresh of the Pro turn it into a Pro computer again.
- TheOperator 8y ago
  The lack of emphasis of good input is absolutely maddening when people were buying macbooks with lousy specs for the price, low-res displays for the price, who absolutely loved the fantastic trackpad, adequete keyboard, and good build quality. Now the devices are getting more fragile and the keyboards aren't even average they're junk. The touchbar is shit. Apple seems to be regressing to their form over function puck mouse days. Meanwhile desktop consumers are realising how undervalued input has been for a long time and are buying $100 keyboards in great quantities.
  - therein 8y ago
    > The touchbar is shit. It really is. Way to go making it impossible to (un)mute and adjust the volume without opening my eyes. And in exchange of what, really? The privilege of losing the physical Esc?
    - breatheoften 8y ago
      Not to mention the touchid sensor is completely terrible. It never - ever - works for me. I never had this level of problem with touchid on the iPhone ... The new iCloud Keychain password prompt, which shows only touchid with password prompt hidden behind a button is fucking terrible — along with the auto submit behavior after filling out the form - which very often results in extra password required popups. I’m starting to wonder if anyone at apple is using this stuff — maybe corporate disabled all these features for security reasons and apple developers actually aren’t allowed to use in practice ...?
      - cerberusss 8y ago
        I use TouchID all the time. I think yours is simply broken, to be honest.
        vlovich123 8y ago
        I have found the TouchID to be similarly unreliable. It's possible thought it's a mixture of different human factors (iPhone TouchID is easier to touch the same way every time) and more immature hardware.
- criddell 8y ago
  I don't need peak processor power, but I sure would like a modern processor underclocked for battery life.
- chrischen 8y ago
  You can get the benefits of a faster processor without constantly maxing it out. A faster clocked processor will complete tasks faster. If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, but if you do any type of compilation the extra cores and speed will make a significant difference. In the case of node and client side development, the extra speed can shave seconds off hot code injection and compilation times on every code change (every time you save the file).
  - admax88q 8y ago
    > If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, Even the modern web continually maxes many processors. Google Docs/Sheets, Slack, Hangouts. "Just browsing the web" has become a compute intensive task.
vernie 8y ago
The only substantial difference between my 2011 MBP and 2018 MBP for what I use it for (browsing the web, the lightest of computation) is that the 2018 model has really sharp edges that make me hate carrying it around. For my heavier workloads even the latest, top-of-the-line MBP is completely inadequate.
- TheOperator 8y ago
  Which is a shame since MBPs were once the fastest Windows laptops on the market. I don't think the form factor really allows for a true workstation laptop anymore akin to say the Lenovo W series.
- Simulacra 8y ago
  My personal laptop is a 2012 MacBook Pro. Still going strong.
oarabbus_ 8y ago
Pretty asinine comment. Most heavy duty computing is done on cloud systems these days.
- astrodust 8y ago
  There are niches like video editing, but those are increasingly becoming GPU dependent.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
robdachshund 8y ago
I don't know if you've noticed but Intel chips have hardly improved over the years. They've been content with die shrinks for since sandy bridge. And even then, they've had to turn off the speculative hacks because of spectre and meltdown. Apple also doesn't care about thermal performance. Look at how their i9 models throttle and perform worse than the i7 variants. If you're buying apple you aren't putting performance first and foremost. It's either because of mac os or the design. You've been able to buy much faster windows laptops for far less money since they switched to intel. That's why a lot of devs have switched to lenovo.

m463 8y ago

I think my 2007-ish macbook pro had the best keyboard of all. Light action concave keys I don't think that the superiority of concave keys gets the attention it deserves. - the keys fit your finger better - the force of the keypress is evenly distributed across the surface of your finger, especially as the key bottoms out. New keyboards deform your finger pad as you press down and are less comfortable. - the concave shape helps you locate the keys and center your fingers by feel. This leads to more accurate finger placement initially and as you type. You will type more accurately.

bproven 8y ago
Sounds simliar to the Thinkpad keys/keyboards - the best in the industry IMO. Mac trackpad + Thinkpad keyboard = perfect laptop :)
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  If you are speaking about the 7 row Thinkpad keyboards from before the Lenovo acquisition I totally agree.
icedchai 8y ago
yes, this early style MacBook Pro keyboard was my favorite, as well! I could never understand the preference for the newer ("chiclet") keyboards.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

A comic from the same month making the same point: http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2016/10/29/the-new-macbooks-are-here/ http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2016/10/29/the-new-macbooks-ar... "We want to make a laptop so thin you'll close it and never find it again."