6 ms·

I would prefer that it stayed that way. Most cryptocurrencies are vaporware.

celticninja 7y ago
Not really, most of the ICOs of 2017 were vaporware. Cryptocurrencies exist so therefore cannot be vaporware.
sparkie 7y ago
All cryptocurrencies (except Bitcoin) are idiotware. Bitcoin was built on the idea of sound money - as a fix for the serious problem of inflation. Other "cryptocurrencies" are pro-inflation by design. They're based on the idea that "everyone can print money," by simply redefining a few constants and recompiling the code. Their proponents see this as pro-freedom, but free money is worthless money. "Cryptocurrencies" are anti-bitcoin, and have a worse inflation problem than the fiat which only bitcoin provides the fix for, and only bitcoin can provide the fix for, because you can't invent the wheel twice. You can improve upon the design of the wheel. You do this by improving Bitcoin without reintroducing inflation.
- GTP 7y ago
  But still Bitcoin has a lot of inflation due to speculators... I would trust more a criptocurrency that is used to buy/sell something "tangible" like Filecoin that is used to buy/sell storage.
  - thinkmassive 7y ago
    Bitcoin has inflation because there is still a block reward to subsidize mining. Speculators driving up the USD exchange rate does not create new units of the currency, it isn’t inflation.
    - GTP 7y ago
      It's inflation because by buying/selling large quantities they effectively change bitcoin's value. In fact in the past there were a lot of repentine changes in bitcoin's value and not by some cents but in the order of hundreds of dollars.This is an inflation higher than most if not all "traditional" currencies.
    - shkkmo 7y ago
      Inflation is not (directly) related to the supply of a currency, but to the value of that currency (usually measured vs the amount of goods/services a unit can purchase). When a currency loses value over time, it is inflating, when it gains value over time, it is deflating. Now, supply of a currency CAN impact its value, so large increases in supply can lead to large decreases in value. It seems pretty obvious that the main driver of value changes in Bitcoin is not the supply but the demand. The block reward will only have a significant impact on the deflation of bitcoin if demand becomes much, much more stable. Since the primary driver of Bitcoin demand is speculation, this does not seem likely anytime soon.
  - sparkie 7y ago
    Bitcoin has initial inflation due to the process by which the currency is created, where the operators of the network are subsidized in the newly created coin for designating their hardware to securing the network. However, there is a halvening every 210000 blocks, with an eventual complete elimination of a subsidy and creation of any more of the currency. There is a hard cap on the amount of the currency in existence, which is a cap on inflation. The "inflation" of the BTC/USD exchange rate due to speculation is absolutely nothing to do with this. Those are simply growing pains for on-boarding while bitcoin is still in elementary stages. It is a mistake to think something "tangible" is better denominated by a token than by the thing itself. When you buy storage, you want storage. A promissory virtual token is not a replacement for storage, and has no inherent value in itself. The storage has value - that will continue to be the case whether there is a token or a hundred tokens, or no tokens. Currency is the same. If the currency itself does not have inherent value, then the paper which it represents would be useless. Junk economists have managed to convince most people that currency itself is worthless and it's value is a construct of our imagination. Bitcoin has inherent value. Other "cryptocurrencies" also have inherent value - the only difference is that their value will diminish over time, whereas bitcoin will appreciate.
    - GTP 7y ago
      >The storage has value - that will continue to be the case whether there is a token or a hundred tokens, or no tokens. And this is exactly why I think that a token used for a specific tangible thing like storage would be more stable: storage has a value and that value doesn't repentinely change by hundreds of dollars in a day.
      - sparkie 7y ago
        Storage can change value at the blink of an eye, as can the junk token which purports to represent it. The things which dictate value are supply and demand. In storage, you will pay what you need based on your demands, and the price will be determined by how much is available. If there is abundance, it it cheap, if it is scarce, it will be expensive. The same is true for the token. However, as I've pointed out, the token is by-design not scarce, because anybody can print their own substitute. The token only creates additional friction between the consumer, who wants storage, and the seller, who wants money for their service. If the seller ends up with a bunch of "storage tokens", what good is it for them if they want to do their grocery shopping? What good is it for paying their bills? Do you think each of these services will have their own token, and each one will present an additional layer of friction for every person who just wants to get on with their lives? Of course this isn't the case. People will sell of whatever junk tokens they have and try to accumulate and save the most saleable commodity, which will be the one which does not depreciate, or depreciates as the slowest rate compared to any other commodity, ensuring that they will get their value's worth when they eventually want to trade it for something they need. The seller of storage is also going to want to trade their commodity, storage, for a commodity which is more saleable than storage. They would never sell it for something less saleable than storage unless they had a direct need for that commodity. The seller will therefore, also offer their services in exchange for the most saleable commodity - the one with universal applicability which the greatest number of other people will accept in exchange for goods or services. I suggest reading Carl Menger's "On the Origins of Money"[1] for a better understanding of how certain commodities become money. [1]:http://monadnock.net/menger/money.html http://monadnock.net/menger/money.html
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- littlestymaar 7y ago
  Bitcoin was built with a really narrow ideological view of money (that limited supply of money is good) built on a fallacy (that current money is fake money created by governments, when in reality it's created by the banking system through credit). It's not “sound money” it's more like «libertarian dream money», and so far it failed at becoming a money (e.g. something you would buy stuff with), because of the scarcity, which leads to automatic deflation.
  - mrb 7y ago
    "so far it failed at becoming a money" Bitpay (one of the largest Bitcoin payment processors in the world) processed a record $1 billion in transactions in 2018. This impressive increase of people using Bitcoin to buy real-world products and services shows Bitcoin is doing very well as "money": https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190116005701/en/BitPay-Sees-Record-Year-Revenue-2018-1 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190116005701/en/Bit...
    - shkkmo 7y ago
      1 billion is what, about 1% of supply of bitcoin? So less than that since this includes bitcoin cash as well? > In the past year, the BitPay wallet added integrations with major gift card brands, enabling users to buy gift cards in-app for travel, food, and shopping with Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. They don't break out what types of goods/services are being purchased. I wonder to what percentage of their transaction are being used to sell / launder bitcoins associated with illegal activity by buying gift cards that can then be resold.
      - intertextuality 7y ago
        Not sure why you're being downvoted here; I also would like to see a breakdown of what people are actually buying with bitcoin thru BitPay. To this day I still don't know anyone in real life who actually uses it over any other payment method.
        Ibethewalrus 7y ago

Not really, most of the ICOs of 2017 were vaporware. Cryptocurrencies exist so therefore cannot be vaporware.

All cryptocurrencies (except Bitcoin) are idiotware. Bitcoin was built on the idea of sound money - as a fix for the serious problem of inflation. Other "cryptocurrencies" are pro-inflation by design. They're based on the idea that "everyone can print money," by simply redefining a few constants and recompiling the code. Their proponents see this as pro-freedom, but free money is worthless money. "Cryptocurrencies" are anti-bitcoin, and have a worse inflation problem than the fiat which only bitcoin provides the fix for, and only bitcoin can provide the fix for, because you can't invent the wheel twice. You can improve upon the design of the wheel. You do this by improving Bitcoin without reintroducing inflation.

GTP 7y ago
But still Bitcoin has a lot of inflation due to speculators... I would trust more a criptocurrency that is used to buy/sell something "tangible" like Filecoin that is used to buy/sell storage.
- thinkmassive 7y ago
  Bitcoin has inflation because there is still a block reward to subsidize mining. Speculators driving up the USD exchange rate does not create new units of the currency, it isn’t inflation.
  - GTP 7y ago
    It's inflation because by buying/selling large quantities they effectively change bitcoin's value. In fact in the past there were a lot of repentine changes in bitcoin's value and not by some cents but in the order of hundreds of dollars.This is an inflation higher than most if not all "traditional" currencies.
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    Inflation is not (directly) related to the supply of a currency, but to the value of that currency (usually measured vs the amount of goods/services a unit can purchase). When a currency loses value over time, it is inflating, when it gains value over time, it is deflating. Now, supply of a currency CAN impact its value, so large increases in supply can lead to large decreases in value. It seems pretty obvious that the main driver of value changes in Bitcoin is not the supply but the demand. The block reward will only have a significant impact on the deflation of bitcoin if demand becomes much, much more stable. Since the primary driver of Bitcoin demand is speculation, this does not seem likely anytime soon.
- sparkie 7y ago
  Bitcoin has initial inflation due to the process by which the currency is created, where the operators of the network are subsidized in the newly created coin for designating their hardware to securing the network. However, there is a halvening every 210000 blocks, with an eventual complete elimination of a subsidy and creation of any more of the currency. There is a hard cap on the amount of the currency in existence, which is a cap on inflation. The "inflation" of the BTC/USD exchange rate due to speculation is absolutely nothing to do with this. Those are simply growing pains for on-boarding while bitcoin is still in elementary stages. It is a mistake to think something "tangible" is better denominated by a token than by the thing itself. When you buy storage, you want storage. A promissory virtual token is not a replacement for storage, and has no inherent value in itself. The storage has value - that will continue to be the case whether there is a token or a hundred tokens, or no tokens. Currency is the same. If the currency itself does not have inherent value, then the paper which it represents would be useless. Junk economists have managed to convince most people that currency itself is worthless and it's value is a construct of our imagination. Bitcoin has inherent value. Other "cryptocurrencies" also have inherent value - the only difference is that their value will diminish over time, whereas bitcoin will appreciate.
  - GTP 7y ago
    >The storage has value - that will continue to be the case whether there is a token or a hundred tokens, or no tokens. And this is exactly why I think that a token used for a specific tangible thing like storage would be more stable: storage has a value and that value doesn't repentinely change by hundreds of dollars in a day.
    - sparkie 7y ago
      Storage can change value at the blink of an eye, as can the junk token which purports to represent it. The things which dictate value are supply and demand. In storage, you will pay what you need based on your demands, and the price will be determined by how much is available. If there is abundance, it it cheap, if it is scarce, it will be expensive. The same is true for the token. However, as I've pointed out, the token is by-design not scarce, because anybody can print their own substitute. The token only creates additional friction between the consumer, who wants storage, and the seller, who wants money for their service. If the seller ends up with a bunch of "storage tokens", what good is it for them if they want to do their grocery shopping? What good is it for paying their bills? Do you think each of these services will have their own token, and each one will present an additional layer of friction for every person who just wants to get on with their lives? Of course this isn't the case. People will sell of whatever junk tokens they have and try to accumulate and save the most saleable commodity, which will be the one which does not depreciate, or depreciates as the slowest rate compared to any other commodity, ensuring that they will get their value's worth when they eventually want to trade it for something they need. The seller of storage is also going to want to trade their commodity, storage, for a commodity which is more saleable than storage. They would never sell it for something less saleable than storage unless they had a direct need for that commodity. The seller will therefore, also offer their services in exchange for the most saleable commodity - the one with universal applicability which the greatest number of other people will accept in exchange for goods or services. I suggest reading Carl Menger's "On the Origins of Money"[1] for a better understanding of how certain commodities become money. [1]:http://monadnock.net/menger/money.html http://monadnock.net/menger/money.html
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
littlestymaar 7y ago
Bitcoin was built with a really narrow ideological view of money (that limited supply of money is good) built on a fallacy (that current money is fake money created by governments, when in reality it's created by the banking system through credit). It's not “sound money” it's more like «libertarian dream money», and so far it failed at becoming a money (e.g. something you would buy stuff with), because of the scarcity, which leads to automatic deflation.
- mrb 7y ago
  "so far it failed at becoming a money" Bitpay (one of the largest Bitcoin payment processors in the world) processed a record $1 billion in transactions in 2018. This impressive increase of people using Bitcoin to buy real-world products and services shows Bitcoin is doing very well as "money": https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190116005701/en/BitPay-Sees-Record-Year-Revenue-2018-1 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190116005701/en/Bit...
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    1 billion is what, about 1% of supply of bitcoin? So less than that since this includes bitcoin cash as well? > In the past year, the BitPay wallet added integrations with major gift card brands, enabling users to buy gift cards in-app for travel, food, and shopping with Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. They don't break out what types of goods/services are being purchased. I wonder to what percentage of their transaction are being used to sell / launder bitcoins associated with illegal activity by buying gift cards that can then be resold.
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      Not sure why you're being downvoted here; I also would like to see a breakdown of what people are actually buying with bitcoin thru BitPay. To this day I still don't know anyone in real life who actually uses it over any other payment method.
      - Ibethewalrus 7y ago