5 ms·

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpa

by fumar 7y ago

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a big fan of the ThinkPads because their keyboards tend to have solid travel and they have trackpoint. Having the ability to type and move the cursor without moving your hands off home row is great. The Surface lineup has built in touch and pen capabilities that does come in handy for note taking in meetings. As does the Thinkpad Yoga line. For a year or so, I thought the ThinkPad Yoga line was a good compromise. But, then I started to have problems with random reboots, PWM screen, bluetooth issues, random CPU usage. I chalked that up to part Windows. I bought a refurbished top-spec x230 and hackintoshed that. It was a good middle ground for "user upgradable hardware" + MacOS. I kept that thing for 1.5 years and towards the end I used it as my primary device. That was the start of me creeping back to MacOS. edit: Newer Thinkpad models made battery replacement harder by removing the swappable second battery option. I carried the x230 everywhere with an extra battery that was awesome, but I still didn't get great battery life. I look back and find it funny that I carried up to two batteries around for that thing and probably had less battery life than the new MacBooks. I prefer to have something that just works. I bought the MacBook 2018 upon release and its been a workhorse with zero issues thus far. Day to day, I work in adtech and dabble in python on the side. I can't say that for any of the machines above. I even hook this up to en eGPU and play Dirt Rally on high settings. I miss the TrackPoint and touch screen of some other models but I am doing just fine. Instead, I use an iPad Pro with pencil. That is a far better tablet for writing than the Surface line due to the superior app ecosystem on iOS (see Paper, procreate, Pixelmator Photo, Affinity design and photo, etc).

nrjames 7y ago
I have a 2016 MBP and love the keyboard. I've never had any problems with it. That's not to dismiss people who have experienced quality issues. I don't mind the touch bar, but it's not particularly useful.
- jimmy1 7y ago
  I'm adding onto this -- I have a 2017 edition of the MBP for work, and I have a faulty keyboard. I hated it. "The touchbar is stupid", I proclaimed. I recently bought a 2018 edition for the wife because she has always expressed a desire of owning one of her own (my work always provided me with a mac). The keyboard is much improved. Additionally, watching a "normal" user interact with a Mac and a touchbar, versus me, a developer was eye opening, and I suddenly realized there is a lot more to the puzzle we are so blind to. She loves it. Sure, it is an "emoji bar" when she is in iMessage, but she also loves the scrolling functionality it provides in Photos. I still don't see much use for it personally, but I am no longer a rapid opponent of it as I once was. There's always been extra ports and features on other laptops I've used in the past, and I never seemed so critical of those as well. Maybe I bought into the mob mentality? Going back to my wife, her work provided her with a Thinkpad Yoga. It has a touch screen, and a stylus. Ok touch screens I am not the biggest fan of, but I happen to think the stylus is cool! I am sure there were many users of the previous Thinkpads at her company that were going "What!? A stupid stylus? Who needs this!" I realized I was doing the same thing with the new MBP. Touchbar or not, it is still the most quality, aesthetically pleasing, well built laptop I use, and it still remains miles beyond any PC I ever used as well, Inspirons, XPSes, Surfaces included.
  - Retra 7y ago
    I don't think people would be complaining nearly as much if they simply added the touchbar above the existing keys rather than replacing them. Or left the esc and power keys while putting the touchbar in between them. Lots of things they could have done.
    - jimmy1 7y ago
      The replacing the existing keys is a good point. I don't feel the pain of the ESC key since I remap caps lock to it, I always thought "Function" keys were relics of a bygone era, (and unergonomic to use), and the little black doodad functions just as well as a power button as any other one I have ever used.
  - 7y ago
d35007 7y ago
I bought the 2018 MacBook Pro shortly after its release and I'm pleased with my purchase. I don't really like the keyboard, but I spend the vast majority of my time at a desk with an external keyboard and mouse anyway. My laptop is basically a desktop that I lug to and from work everyday. USB-C has been great for me because it means that I can have 1 hub that handles power, my external monitor, network, and all of my other peripherals. I tell people it's like having a docking station that works 100% of the time. I don't like the keyboard because I find that I accidentally repeat keystrokes on it a lot. Maybe I just need more practice or lighter fingers. I also have to admit that I don't like to eat around it for fear of spilling crumbs on the keyboard. I've always been pretty tidy around my laptops, but I've never been this worried. It's not a deal breaker for me (obviously), but I hope they fix the keyboard's issues in the next version.
fjp 7y ago
I'm in the same boat as you. I wish my company had issued me the model without the touchbar, as I very much would prefer physical function and esc keys but other than that I love the machine and have never had issues. The one thing I would change is that I seem to have to reach way over to the right side of the trackpad to get a "right-click". I also have a ~2016 macbook air and the keyboard SUCKS in comparison to the butterfly keyboard.
- qubitcoder 7y ago
  You should be able to right-click anywhere on the trackpad with a two finger tap.
- burlesona 7y ago
  As a sibling said you can set it to have two-finger taps be right click. On my older (smaller trackpad) MBP I thought that setting was dumb and I avoided it. On the newer (2018) I was having a hard time reaching all the way to the right, so I finally decided to give two-finger tap another try. Years ago a developer friend told me that for any workflow change you should give it one week of total commitment, no switching back and forth, then decide if you want to stick with it. For me that was more than enough time to learn to love the two-finger right click. As with most successful workflow switches, the one week evaluation deadline came and went without me noticing, and I never looked back.
kcommam 7y ago
I feel the exact same way and have always recommended Macs to friends, family and cwoorkers as the computere that "just works." I'm been suspicious of people who disagree with that sentiment — to each their own, but I don't think there's much dispuute that Macs just work. Yet, now, heere I am with a 2018 MacBooko Pro that repeats keys randomly — somoetimes out of theorder they were pushed— andstarting to wonder if I need to change my recommendation. The laptop has been "fixed" twice now and always works just fine for a day or two before reevertinig back to the same old state. I clean the keyboard daily with compressed air, thouugh that's largely become a symbolic gesture that doesn't fix the issue but at least makes me feel like I'm not crazy. All that said, much like the author of the article, I'm so bought in to the Apple ecosystem at this point that I've resorted to a certain kind of stooicism — thiis is apparently the set of circumstances I have been giiven and I must live with it. (Note: no, I'm not too lazy to correct typos noor a partiicluarly poor typer — this post is the unedited resulut of typing on my broken keyboard. Just be happy double spaces don't show up by default in DOM elements.)
- dfee 7y ago
  I finally took my 2018 MBP in and they replaced the upper case (I guess keyboard, touchbar, and more?) to fix the keyboard issue. The work took about 2 days (drop-off, return). But I ended up buying a keyboard cover for it because the risk of particulate putting me in this situation again - and the consequences of that occurring - are of greater cost than the annoyance of a plastic film over the keyboard. I recommend you take it in and do the same.
- TheOperator 7y ago
  My MBA2012 had some nasty issues with wifi disconnections which happened independant of the router being used. Used a USB wifi or ethernet adapter as a workaround sometimes sacrificing half my USB ports. Trackpad was great and I am blown away that people complain about it since I consider it the market leader. Outlived most of my other laptops even if it had annoying recurring issues for its lifespan. Still recommended macs to others until Tim Apple took over the company and the laptops became poor quality machines. I thought the initial MBPr was the most incredible laptop I've ever seen.
dmitryminkovsky 7y ago
Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboards and new MBPs are excellent machines.
- geerlingguy 7y ago
  I love the feel, but in my 2016 I did have the spacebar stop working on one side (the side I tend to use more often) because of dirt ingress. My favorite keyboard ever, though, is the current 'Magic Keyboard'. It's like the perfect medium between the old chicklet-style that felt rather mushy to me and the new butterfly mechanism that's almost too rigid. Sadly, it seems Apple does not want to go back to that feel in their mobile line :( The grip I have with the newer Pros is the *@($ Touch Bar. It's sad that the new Air has exactly what I wanted—addition of Touch ID but no Touch Bar—but the so-called Pros still have the Touch Bar. I have yet to find a touch typist who believes the Touch Bar to be a good reason to pay a few hundred extra for it.
  - rbanffy 7y ago
    Keyboards are a very personal thing. I think the butterfly is usable and pleasing, but that the magic keyboard is a dreadful downgrade from the previous one that was more or less identical to the previous-gen Macbooks (which were very adequate). My favorite keyboard, beam-spring being a thing of the past, is the Model M (Unicomp still builds them). I love it, even if my family would rather have me not typing after 10 PM.
  - cnf 7y ago
    I absolutely love my touchbar, and would hate to see it go. I know per context where each key I need is.
- fumar 7y ago
  We should all advocate for continuous improvements for machines we rely day to day. What I learned is that no one else is making a better laptop than Apple. I tried a lot of machines and spent way too much money and time trying to make them worthwhile. The Surface line is riddled with issues. I defended it in the past (see old comments from me), because I felt Apple was not innovating. But, hindsight I would rather have a reliable machine. Wifi would break all the time on Surfaces, battery would drain on its own while in my bag, the pen would lag, etc. I don't think anyone would be happy if Apple release a similar product. I gave the Surface team several tries through their iterations and they never fixed the main issues. Someone else said it, the new Apple wireless keyboards are great. I have one at work and at home.
MrScruff 7y ago
Also totally happy with my 2016 MBP, keyboard and all.
ajford 7y ago
The T series still has the removable batteries, and the newer model years (T460 and up) have weights equivalent to the older X240 and below. My T460 is within 0.5lbs (~0.25kg) of my work-issued 2015 MBP 13in, and from my quick searches, that seems to be generally consistent up to the modern T490 & 2018 MBP 13s. I don't have a modern Thinkpad or MBP to compare, but my T460 still gets ~4-5hrs of normal usage, or 2-3hrs of heavy usage (strategy gaming like FTL or Rimworld, running VMs and python dev work, etc). My 2015 MBP 13 gets fairly similar times.
cnf 7y ago
I very much like my MBP keyboard and touchbar as well. And I know plenty of people that share the sentiment.
csomar 7y ago
I do share your sentiment. I live in a country with lots of "dust". I had concerns after reading people reviews but went ahead and bought the latest 2018 version. Two things: 1- I really enjoy the new Macbook Pro keyboard. Way more than the 2014 one. 2- It is really dusty and I need to clean every week. Partly, because I work on cafes a lot. So far (6 months), it has been going strong. No issues (the trackpad can be annoying at times, but that's it).

by fumar 7y ago

nrjames 7y ago

I have a 2016 MBP and love the keyboard. I've never had any problems with it. That's not to dismiss people who have experienced quality issues. I don't mind the touch bar, but it's not particularly useful.

jimmy1 7y ago
I'm adding onto this -- I have a 2017 edition of the MBP for work, and I have a faulty keyboard. I hated it. "The touchbar is stupid", I proclaimed. I recently bought a 2018 edition for the wife because she has always expressed a desire of owning one of her own (my work always provided me with a mac). The keyboard is much improved. Additionally, watching a "normal" user interact with a Mac and a touchbar, versus me, a developer was eye opening, and I suddenly realized there is a lot more to the puzzle we are so blind to. She loves it. Sure, it is an "emoji bar" when she is in iMessage, but she also loves the scrolling functionality it provides in Photos. I still don't see much use for it personally, but I am no longer a rapid opponent of it as I once was. There's always been extra ports and features on other laptops I've used in the past, and I never seemed so critical of those as well. Maybe I bought into the mob mentality? Going back to my wife, her work provided her with a Thinkpad Yoga. It has a touch screen, and a stylus. Ok touch screens I am not the biggest fan of, but I happen to think the stylus is cool! I am sure there were many users of the previous Thinkpads at her company that were going "What!? A stupid stylus? Who needs this!" I realized I was doing the same thing with the new MBP. Touchbar or not, it is still the most quality, aesthetically pleasing, well built laptop I use, and it still remains miles beyond any PC I ever used as well, Inspirons, XPSes, Surfaces included.
- Retra 7y ago
  I don't think people would be complaining nearly as much if they simply added the touchbar above the existing keys rather than replacing them. Or left the esc and power keys while putting the touchbar in between them. Lots of things they could have done.
  - jimmy1 7y ago
    The replacing the existing keys is a good point. I don't feel the pain of the ESC key since I remap caps lock to it, I always thought "Function" keys were relics of a bygone era, (and unergonomic to use), and the little black doodad functions just as well as a power button as any other one I have ever used.
- 7y ago

d35007 7y ago

I bought the 2018 MacBook Pro shortly after its release and I'm pleased with my purchase. I don't really like the keyboard, but I spend the vast majority of my time at a desk with an external keyboard and mouse anyway. My laptop is basically a desktop that I lug to and from work everyday. USB-C has been great for me because it means that I can have 1 hub that handles power, my external monitor, network, and all of my other peripherals. I tell people it's like having a docking station that works 100% of the time. I don't like the keyboard because I find that I accidentally repeat keystrokes on it a lot. Maybe I just need more practice or lighter fingers. I also have to admit that I don't like to eat around it for fear of spilling crumbs on the keyboard. I've always been pretty tidy around my laptops, but I've never been this worried. It's not a deal breaker for me (obviously), but I hope they fix the keyboard's issues in the next version.

fjp 7y ago

I'm in the same boat as you. I wish my company had issued me the model without the touchbar, as I very much would prefer physical function and esc keys but other than that I love the machine and have never had issues. The one thing I would change is that I seem to have to reach way over to the right side of the trackpad to get a "right-click". I also have a ~2016 macbook air and the keyboard SUCKS in comparison to the butterfly keyboard.

qubitcoder 7y ago
You should be able to right-click anywhere on the trackpad with a two finger tap.
burlesona 7y ago
As a sibling said you can set it to have two-finger taps be right click. On my older (smaller trackpad) MBP I thought that setting was dumb and I avoided it. On the newer (2018) I was having a hard time reaching all the way to the right, so I finally decided to give two-finger tap another try. Years ago a developer friend told me that for any workflow change you should give it one week of total commitment, no switching back and forth, then decide if you want to stick with it. For me that was more than enough time to learn to love the two-finger right click. As with most successful workflow switches, the one week evaluation deadline came and went without me noticing, and I never looked back.

kcommam 7y ago

I feel the exact same way and have always recommended Macs to friends, family and cwoorkers as the computere that "just works." I'm been suspicious of people who disagree with that sentiment — to each their own, but I don't think there's much dispuute that Macs just work. Yet, now, heere I am with a 2018 MacBooko Pro that repeats keys randomly — somoetimes out of theorder they were pushed— andstarting to wonder if I need to change my recommendation. The laptop has been "fixed" twice now and always works just fine for a day or two before reevertinig back to the same old state. I clean the keyboard daily with compressed air, thouugh that's largely become a symbolic gesture that doesn't fix the issue but at least makes me feel like I'm not crazy. All that said, much like the author of the article, I'm so bought in to the Apple ecosystem at this point that I've resorted to a certain kind of stooicism — thiis is apparently the set of circumstances I have been giiven and I must live with it. (Note: no, I'm not too lazy to correct typos noor a partiicluarly poor typer — this post is the unedited resulut of typing on my broken keyboard. Just be happy double spaces don't show up by default in DOM elements.)

dfee 7y ago
I finally took my 2018 MBP in and they replaced the upper case (I guess keyboard, touchbar, and more?) to fix the keyboard issue. The work took about 2 days (drop-off, return). But I ended up buying a keyboard cover for it because the risk of particulate putting me in this situation again - and the consequences of that occurring - are of greater cost than the annoyance of a plastic film over the keyboard. I recommend you take it in and do the same.
TheOperator 7y ago
My MBA2012 had some nasty issues with wifi disconnections which happened independant of the router being used. Used a USB wifi or ethernet adapter as a workaround sometimes sacrificing half my USB ports. Trackpad was great and I am blown away that people complain about it since I consider it the market leader. Outlived most of my other laptops even if it had annoying recurring issues for its lifespan. Still recommended macs to others until Tim Apple took over the company and the laptops became poor quality machines. I thought the initial MBPr was the most incredible laptop I've ever seen.

dmitryminkovsky 7y ago

Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboards and new MBPs are excellent machines.

geerlingguy 7y ago
I love the feel, but in my 2016 I did have the spacebar stop working on one side (the side I tend to use more often) because of dirt ingress. My favorite keyboard ever, though, is the current 'Magic Keyboard'. It's like the perfect medium between the old chicklet-style that felt rather mushy to me and the new butterfly mechanism that's almost too rigid. Sadly, it seems Apple does not want to go back to that feel in their mobile line :( The grip I have with the newer Pros is the *@($ Touch Bar. It's sad that the new Air has exactly what I wanted—addition of Touch ID but no Touch Bar—but the so-called Pros still have the Touch Bar. I have yet to find a touch typist who believes the Touch Bar to be a good reason to pay a few hundred extra for it.
- rbanffy 7y ago
  Keyboards are a very personal thing. I think the butterfly is usable and pleasing, but that the magic keyboard is a dreadful downgrade from the previous one that was more or less identical to the previous-gen Macbooks (which were very adequate). My favorite keyboard, beam-spring being a thing of the past, is the Model M (Unicomp still builds them). I love it, even if my family would rather have me not typing after 10 PM.
- cnf 7y ago
  I absolutely love my touchbar, and would hate to see it go. I know per context where each key I need is.
fumar 7y ago
We should all advocate for continuous improvements for machines we rely day to day. What I learned is that no one else is making a better laptop than Apple. I tried a lot of machines and spent way too much money and time trying to make them worthwhile. The Surface line is riddled with issues. I defended it in the past (see old comments from me), because I felt Apple was not innovating. But, hindsight I would rather have a reliable machine. Wifi would break all the time on Surfaces, battery would drain on its own while in my bag, the pen would lag, etc. I don't think anyone would be happy if Apple release a similar product. I gave the Surface team several tries through their iterations and they never fixed the main issues. Someone else said it, the new Apple wireless keyboards are great. I have one at work and at home.

MrScruff 7y ago

Also totally happy with my 2016 MBP, keyboard and all.

ajford 7y ago

The T series still has the removable batteries, and the newer model years (T460 and up) have weights equivalent to the older X240 and below. My T460 is within 0.5lbs (~0.25kg) of my work-issued 2015 MBP 13in, and from my quick searches, that seems to be generally consistent up to the modern T490 & 2018 MBP 13s. I don't have a modern Thinkpad or MBP to compare, but my T460 still gets ~4-5hrs of normal usage, or 2-3hrs of heavy usage (strategy gaming like FTL or Rimworld, running VMs and python dev work, etc). My 2015 MBP 13 gets fairly similar times.

cnf 7y ago

I very much like my MBP keyboard and touchbar as well. And I know plenty of people that share the sentiment.

csomar 7y ago

I do share your sentiment. I live in a country with lots of "dust". I had concerns after reading people reviews but went ahead and bought the latest 2018 version. Two things: 1- I really enjoy the new Macbook Pro keyboard. Way more than the 2014 one. 2- It is really dusty and I need to clean every week. Partly, because I work on cafes a lot. So far (6 months), it has been going strong. No issues (the trackpad can be annoying at times, but that's it).