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What do you mean? Doesn't matter if it's on premise or in the cloud(someone elses computer) - someone still has to manage it from the company's point. If you le

What do you mean? Doesn't matter if it's on premise or in the cloud(someone elses computer) - someone still has to manage it from the company's point. If you leave it to the devs it'll be a disaster. With that said, this industry is moving fast and if you wanna keep up you need to learn bash/python or powershell on windows, eventually... this is true. Or you can move to smaller companies with fewer assets to manage. If you say you can throw a bash script together than that's a good start. When doing that, try to understand what the author has done - check how the script was made, look up each function and try to remember what they do. Once you remember functions you can always use that knowledge and look up syntax and arguments in the docs and start writing your own code. Bash is not a good place to start though, because it has a lot of weird syntax but python is rather clean. Also take your time, don't think it's something you can learn within a week or month, give it 6months - year, don't push it. If you can't figure it out today, it's ok, try another day.

scarface74 8y ago
I disagree, if you leave it to the sysadmins that take their same mentality to the cloud, it’s a bigger disaster. I straddle both sides and I’d much rather deal with a seasoned software architect who comes to the cloud from that side than a sysadmin who comes from the other side. A sysadmin doesn’t want to automate his job and let the cloud provider manage what they can manage. A good software Architect is mich more likely to be push as much off on to manage services as possible and automate as much as possible.
- vortex_panda 8y ago
  "A sysadmin doesn’t want to automate his job and let the cloud provider manage what they can manage" There may be some people like that, but I never said that I didn't want to automate my job. I'd rather automate as much as possible. I realize that in order to scale infrastructure, you can't be sitting around manually pressing buttons and running apt-get command to install software.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    And that requires programming. When the software architects come to you with a plan about how they plan to implement something, are you going you to understand the technology well enough to know that there is a managed alternative or will you just set up another VM? I was a dev lead at my previous company and they decided to “move to the cloud”. They brought in a whole bunch of consultants. I didn’t know the first thing about AWS back then. I showed the consultants my architectural plans. All of this was greenfield development. If they had known anything about development and understood anything I was talking about, there is no way they wouldn’t have suggested that we used managed services in place of things I was proposing hosting in VMs. Are you also willing to give up hosting things on VMs entirely and using managed services when possible. Will you even know how AWS’s services can be used in place of self hosted applications? This isn’t aimed at you in particular. But there is a lot more to implementing systems on AWS cost efficiently than automating VMs. Too many sysadmins turned “Cloud Architects” can’t get their mind around being “cloud native”. I haven’t even mentioned Kubernetes or Docker - because I haven’t used either yet. The consultants manually set up a VPC with different subnets in different availability zones just like they would have done on prem. No CloudFormation, no separate accounts under an organization, etc. They couldn’t talk about using AWS as developers, or setting up a CI/CD pipeline using AWS’s services.
- lousken 8y ago
  Sysadmin doesn't wanna automate his job? Where did that come from? I am trying to automate as much as possible, because doing repetitive tasks is boring, I'll much rather read HN instead :) But I see your point, the problem with cloud services is that they don't share the same features so if you know AWS and then you move to azure you have to re-learn not just the naming but also how to work with a new toolset which is annoying, so most sysadmins will automate, but just not at the cloud provider level but below. I think this isn't wrong though because setting up an environment can be a lot more painful if you need to switch providers for whatever reason. But I haven't worked in a large company, only below 200 employees so my thinking might be a little different.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Fair enough. I guess the larger issue is how much is the entire organization willing to rethink their architecture - hopefully led by the cloud experts - to be cloud native? If you are just hosting a bunch of VMs and not taking advantage of the providers manager services, from my experience, it will always cost more than just staying on prem.

scarface74 8y ago

I disagree, if you leave it to the sysadmins that take their same mentality to the cloud, it’s a bigger disaster. I straddle both sides and I’d much rather deal with a seasoned software architect who comes to the cloud from that side than a sysadmin who comes from the other side. A sysadmin doesn’t want to automate his job and let the cloud provider manage what they can manage. A good software Architect is mich more likely to be push as much off on to manage services as possible and automate as much as possible.

vortex_panda 8y ago
"A sysadmin doesn’t want to automate his job and let the cloud provider manage what they can manage" There may be some people like that, but I never said that I didn't want to automate my job. I'd rather automate as much as possible. I realize that in order to scale infrastructure, you can't be sitting around manually pressing buttons and running apt-get command to install software.
- scarface74 8y ago
  And that requires programming. When the software architects come to you with a plan about how they plan to implement something, are you going you to understand the technology well enough to know that there is a managed alternative or will you just set up another VM? I was a dev lead at my previous company and they decided to “move to the cloud”. They brought in a whole bunch of consultants. I didn’t know the first thing about AWS back then. I showed the consultants my architectural plans. All of this was greenfield development. If they had known anything about development and understood anything I was talking about, there is no way they wouldn’t have suggested that we used managed services in place of things I was proposing hosting in VMs. Are you also willing to give up hosting things on VMs entirely and using managed services when possible. Will you even know how AWS’s services can be used in place of self hosted applications? This isn’t aimed at you in particular. But there is a lot more to implementing systems on AWS cost efficiently than automating VMs. Too many sysadmins turned “Cloud Architects” can’t get their mind around being “cloud native”. I haven’t even mentioned Kubernetes or Docker - because I haven’t used either yet. The consultants manually set up a VPC with different subnets in different availability zones just like they would have done on prem. No CloudFormation, no separate accounts under an organization, etc. They couldn’t talk about using AWS as developers, or setting up a CI/CD pipeline using AWS’s services.
lousken 8y ago
Sysadmin doesn't wanna automate his job? Where did that come from? I am trying to automate as much as possible, because doing repetitive tasks is boring, I'll much rather read HN instead :) But I see your point, the problem with cloud services is that they don't share the same features so if you know AWS and then you move to azure you have to re-learn not just the naming but also how to work with a new toolset which is annoying, so most sysadmins will automate, but just not at the cloud provider level but below. I think this isn't wrong though because setting up an environment can be a lot more painful if you need to switch providers for whatever reason. But I haven't worked in a large company, only below 200 employees so my thinking might be a little different.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Fair enough. I guess the larger issue is how much is the entire organization willing to rethink their architecture - hopefully led by the cloud experts - to be cloud native? If you are just hosting a bunch of VMs and not taking advantage of the providers manager services, from my experience, it will always cost more than just staying on prem.