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I think the butterfly keys are great, when I got used to them going back to anything else felt like a step back. Reliability issues are a problem, but that's a

I think the butterfly keys are great, when I got used to them going back to anything else felt like a step back. Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. If they repair for free. The issue with Mac is they are too expensive and a lot of the regular, non-iPhone stuff is languishing.

robertAngst 8y ago
>Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. No, when your product doesnt work, that is unacceptable.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  This the real world: every physical product has tolerances and exhibits problems, and most that are expensive require maintenance. Moreover, new features are going to be problematic. Consider your statement as it would apply to cars for example: they are in constant need of repair, tweaking, maintenance. Butterfly keyboards have never been a problem for me, the issue is really the rate of problems, how they are fixed, who pays for it.
  - robertAngst 8y ago
    Design it so it doesnt break despite tolerances? This is engineering, having something fail is not acceptable.
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      "This is engineering, having something fail is not acceptable." No. Engineering is not about 'zero failure' at all. It's about characterizing the failure properly. Have you ever had the pleasure of working on a physical, manufactured product? There is no such thing as a perfect run. There are always defects, there are always failures for any product at scale. 100% of Apple products have a measurable failure rate. The only Eng. problem where we shoot for 0 failures are a) Space Systems and b) Nuclear tech. Maybe some other things. But even in Space and Nuclear ... there's still a tolerance! We launch people into space with some kind of estimate as to the likelihood they will all die.
      - robertAngst 8y ago
        Failure- Not meeting specifications. These did not meet specs. At least customer expectations.

robertAngst 8y ago

>Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. No, when your product doesnt work, that is unacceptable.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
This the real world: every physical product has tolerances and exhibits problems, and most that are expensive require maintenance. Moreover, new features are going to be problematic. Consider your statement as it would apply to cars for example: they are in constant need of repair, tweaking, maintenance. Butterfly keyboards have never been a problem for me, the issue is really the rate of problems, how they are fixed, who pays for it.
- robertAngst 8y ago
  Design it so it doesnt break despite tolerances? This is engineering, having something fail is not acceptable.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "This is engineering, having something fail is not acceptable." No. Engineering is not about 'zero failure' at all. It's about characterizing the failure properly. Have you ever had the pleasure of working on a physical, manufactured product? There is no such thing as a perfect run. There are always defects, there are always failures for any product at scale. 100% of Apple products have a measurable failure rate. The only Eng. problem where we shoot for 0 failures are a) Space Systems and b) Nuclear tech. Maybe some other things. But even in Space and Nuclear ... there's still a tolerance! We launch people into space with some kind of estimate as to the likelihood they will all die.
    - robertAngst 8y ago
      Failure- Not meeting specifications. These did not meet specs. At least customer expectations.