6 ms·

Describing the current government in Austria as center-right is a bit ridiculous (to say nothing of putting words like centrist or left anywhere near descriptio

by arrrg 8y ago

Describing the current government in Austria as center-right is a bit ridiculous (to say nothing of putting words like centrist or left anywhere near descriptions of that government). Austrian politics have been moving further and further to the right and the FPÖ (junior coalition partner) is a xenophobic far-right party with authoritarian streaks. I’m really not comfortable in describing a government where such a party participates as center-right.

tracked_citizen 8y ago
Censoring the internet is a popular topic among all center parties in Europe. For example "Hate-speech" censorship, where the end justifies the means, is popular among many left leaning parties. Isn't the proposal from an ÖVP minister? Does the ÖVP not qualify as center-right?
- the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
  OeVP in the current incarnation is not in the center any more. Definitely right wing.
  - readittwice 8y ago
    No, that's just your opinion. The OVP is center-right, the FPO is right wing/populistic.
    - the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
      The OeVP current platform is to curb rights of immigrants, to reduce social support systems, lowers corporate tax rates, introduces laws to restrict social housing to non immigrants, reduces child support payments for children in other EU countries, continues the policy on border controls in Schengen, restricts skilled immigration, sets a maximum limit of 1.5 euro per hour income for asylum seekers when doing social service. What did this party do that’s center? The policies that OeVP introduces and advocates are more restrictive and conservative than the FPOe did under Haider.
      - gxwmg 8y ago
        But do the ÖVP actually do that? I'm Spanish and I voted for a "conservative" government this last election, where they promised to do, well, stuff I expected from a conservative party, and they didn't do shit. That's why I call them "centrist". They say they are conservatives, but they don't conserve anything.
        the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
        I only enumerated things they put into law out they proposed or supported from the start. The things the FPOe did was getting rid of the smoking ban, raising the speed limits to 140, renaming the immigration centers to “departure centers”, proposals to cut the funding of the public broadcaster. Together they converted the country in record time into a dystopian place. Even putting childhood education back into former times by reintroducing marks for primary schoolers and minimum requirements that can cause children under 10 to have to repeat a class. They are now both also starting to talk about rolling back abortion rights.
        gxwmg 8y ago
        Yeah, when I voted for the conservatives here I thought they would roll back abortion rights but they didn't, I thought they would fix the immigration madness but they didn't, and that's why I and many other people are voting far right next election: the conservative party has simply failed to be conservative, they just became centrists to attract more votes, and I sure hope it will backfire. And that's why these laws are popping up all over Europe: they want to maintain control, they are scared of new parties.
        readittwice 8y ago
        Well, the conservatives and the right are not going to implement left politics. Austria was certainly NOT converted into a "dystopian place". Like it or not: Some time ago, a left-leaning newspaper (Standard) wrote that the current government has the best polls recorded so far.
        8y ago
gxwmg 8y ago
I think the wrong words were chosen by the parent. For many decades politics in Europe were dominated by traditional globalist governments, which I would describe as "centrist". For many people those governments are failing and voters are moving to the left and the right, depending on the country of course. Centrist governments are trying to use "hate speech" laws as a way of curbing their loss of control of the media; before they could control the newspapers and the telly and therefore they could control dialogue, now with social networks that's not that easy. We are seeing that with some stories, such as rapes in Sweden and all of that. They could simply tell their friends in TV networks not to talk about it. Problem solved. That doesn't work anymore. So they need the law. In Germany and Austria for example you need to put your real name and address in a visible part of your website known as the Impressum. What's a better way to make sure you keep your opinions under control and your head low?
- peletiah 8y ago
  As others have pointed out, the austrian government is populist right/far-right. This is not a law by centrist parties, but by right-wing authoritarian.
- tremon 8y ago
  those governments are failing and voters are moving to the left and the right, depending on the country of course. I think it's pretty universal across Europe that people are moving more to the extremes. But that doesn't make the original parties suddenly "centrist" -- they're just status-quo, "old school". Centrist governments are trying to use "hate speech" laws as a way of curbing their loss of control of the media I'm sorry, but this just sounds like populist propaganda. There hasn't been government control of the media like you suggest; instead, the media used to be civil. The current "popular" channels do away with civility, and any voice critical of that tone is immediately discarded by playing the victim, like you are doing here. The establishment, still representing the civil masses, is perfectly within scope to try and curb uncivility. Whether their methods are effective is up for debate, but the goal isn't -- we all know what happened last time Europe went uncivil (80 million premature deaths).
  - 8y ago
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
correct the FPÖ is in fact the continuation of the Nazi government and was founded by former Nazis (VDU)[1]. The FPÖ used to be mostly a problem of in Carinthia, where the party was infamous for it's beerfests crawling with skinheads. You might love the place as a tourist, but if you're an immigrant (even born there) and especially Turkish/Muslim (or simply have a different accent), then living in Austria is no fun. [1] (in German sorry): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiheitliche_Partei_%C3%96sterreichs#Vorg%C3%A4ngerpartei_VdU https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiheitliche_Partei_%C3%96ste...
redshiftingstar 8y ago
Not surprised by the political shift, I have lived there for few years and felt really discriminated. Few people actually stopped talking to me after they learn where I'm from(Turkey). It's bit out of context but I will heavily advise against moving there for non-European immigrants, don't make the same mistake that I did.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  I feel for you. The Turkish community has a real hard time in Austria, much more so than Germany. I'm ashamed to say that many people from my childhood, today consider themselves liberals but in their rethoric are nothing more than the descendants of Nazis. The first thing I did when being old enough was to GTFO of Austria, and I haven't been back other than on vacation. I have a couple of Turkish friends in Germany who feel quite comfortable and at home there. From those I met in Austria they were by far not as cheerful. There is a lot of talk about "integration" which is basically a way to say: don't speak your language, don't eat your food, and don't visit your mosques because it offends us. Every attempt of me making friends among Turks in Austria has always been met with suspicion since they aren't used to it. Extremely sad and disgusting. I guess the problem is that people view Austria as some kind of liberal "Western" country, while geographically it is part of Eastern Europe and ideologically they are closer to those cheering for Victor Orban in Hungary. If you want to deeply offend (most) Austrians call them Eastern Europeans. They think they're better.

by arrrg 8y ago

tracked_citizen 8y ago

Censoring the internet is a popular topic among all center parties in Europe. For example "Hate-speech" censorship, where the end justifies the means, is popular among many left leaning parties. Isn't the proposal from an ÖVP minister? Does the ÖVP not qualify as center-right?

the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
OeVP in the current incarnation is not in the center any more. Definitely right wing.
- readittwice 8y ago
  No, that's just your opinion. The OVP is center-right, the FPO is right wing/populistic.
  - the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
    The OeVP current platform is to curb rights of immigrants, to reduce social support systems, lowers corporate tax rates, introduces laws to restrict social housing to non immigrants, reduces child support payments for children in other EU countries, continues the policy on border controls in Schengen, restricts skilled immigration, sets a maximum limit of 1.5 euro per hour income for asylum seekers when doing social service. What did this party do that’s center? The policies that OeVP introduces and advocates are more restrictive and conservative than the FPOe did under Haider.
    - gxwmg 8y ago
      But do the ÖVP actually do that? I'm Spanish and I voted for a "conservative" government this last election, where they promised to do, well, stuff I expected from a conservative party, and they didn't do shit. That's why I call them "centrist". They say they are conservatives, but they don't conserve anything.
      - the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
        I only enumerated things they put into law out they proposed or supported from the start. The things the FPOe did was getting rid of the smoking ban, raising the speed limits to 140, renaming the immigration centers to “departure centers”, proposals to cut the funding of the public broadcaster. Together they converted the country in record time into a dystopian place. Even putting childhood education back into former times by reintroducing marks for primary schoolers and minimum requirements that can cause children under 10 to have to repeat a class. They are now both also starting to talk about rolling back abortion rights.
        gxwmg 8y ago
        Yeah, when I voted for the conservatives here I thought they would roll back abortion rights but they didn't, I thought they would fix the immigration madness but they didn't, and that's why I and many other people are voting far right next election: the conservative party has simply failed to be conservative, they just became centrists to attract more votes, and I sure hope it will backfire. And that's why these laws are popping up all over Europe: they want to maintain control, they are scared of new parties.
        readittwice 8y ago
        Well, the conservatives and the right are not going to implement left politics. Austria was certainly NOT converted into a "dystopian place". Like it or not: Some time ago, a left-leaning newspaper (Standard) wrote that the current government has the best polls recorded so far.
        8y ago

gxwmg 8y ago

I think the wrong words were chosen by the parent. For many decades politics in Europe were dominated by traditional globalist governments, which I would describe as "centrist". For many people those governments are failing and voters are moving to the left and the right, depending on the country of course. Centrist governments are trying to use "hate speech" laws as a way of curbing their loss of control of the media; before they could control the newspapers and the telly and therefore they could control dialogue, now with social networks that's not that easy. We are seeing that with some stories, such as rapes in Sweden and all of that. They could simply tell their friends in TV networks not to talk about it. Problem solved. That doesn't work anymore. So they need the law. In Germany and Austria for example you need to put your real name and address in a visible part of your website known as the Impressum. What's a better way to make sure you keep your opinions under control and your head low?

peletiah 8y ago
As others have pointed out, the austrian government is populist right/far-right. This is not a law by centrist parties, but by right-wing authoritarian.
tremon 8y ago
those governments are failing and voters are moving to the left and the right, depending on the country of course. I think it's pretty universal across Europe that people are moving more to the extremes. But that doesn't make the original parties suddenly "centrist" -- they're just status-quo, "old school". Centrist governments are trying to use "hate speech" laws as a way of curbing their loss of control of the media I'm sorry, but this just sounds like populist propaganda. There hasn't been government control of the media like you suggest; instead, the media used to be civil. The current "popular" channels do away with civility, and any voice critical of that tone is immediately discarded by playing the victim, like you are doing here. The establishment, still representing the civil masses, is perfectly within scope to try and curb uncivility. Whether their methods are effective is up for debate, but the goal isn't -- we all know what happened last time Europe went uncivil (80 million premature deaths).
- 8y ago

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago

correct the FPÖ is in fact the continuation of the Nazi government and was founded by former Nazis (VDU)[1]. The FPÖ used to be mostly a problem of in Carinthia, where the party was infamous for it's beerfests crawling with skinheads. You might love the place as a tourist, but if you're an immigrant (even born there) and especially Turkish/Muslim (or simply have a different accent), then living in Austria is no fun. [1] (in German sorry): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiheitliche_Partei_%C3%96sterreichs#Vorg%C3%A4ngerpartei_VdU https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiheitliche_Partei_%C3%96ste...

redshiftingstar 8y ago

Not surprised by the political shift, I have lived there for few years and felt really discriminated. Few people actually stopped talking to me after they learn where I'm from(Turkey). It's bit out of context but I will heavily advise against moving there for non-European immigrants, don't make the same mistake that I did.

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
I feel for you. The Turkish community has a real hard time in Austria, much more so than Germany. I'm ashamed to say that many people from my childhood, today consider themselves liberals but in their rethoric are nothing more than the descendants of Nazis. The first thing I did when being old enough was to GTFO of Austria, and I haven't been back other than on vacation. I have a couple of Turkish friends in Germany who feel quite comfortable and at home there. From those I met in Austria they were by far not as cheerful. There is a lot of talk about "integration" which is basically a way to say: don't speak your language, don't eat your food, and don't visit your mosques because it offends us. Every attempt of me making friends among Turks in Austria has always been met with suspicion since they aren't used to it. Extremely sad and disgusting. I guess the problem is that people view Austria as some kind of liberal "Western" country, while geographically it is part of Eastern Europe and ideologically they are closer to those cheering for Victor Orban in Hungary. If you want to deeply offend (most) Austrians call them Eastern Europeans. They think they're better.