4 ms·

I’ll add that deterrence breaks down into two different prongs: (1) deterring this particular guy from doing the same thing again and (2) deterring others from

I’ll add that deterrence breaks down into two different prongs: (1) deterring this particular guy from doing the same thing again and (2) deterring others from copying what this guy did. It might seem unfair to punish this guy harshly when a lesser punishment would deter him from ever trying the same thing again, but that is ignoring prong (2), the value of punishing him as a warning to others.

tluyben2 8y ago
The deterrence is probably mostly for the group in (2) but because that group already knows what the punishment is because of the deterrence in said region, but find themselves (by whatever peer pressure, stupidity, drugs&alcohol) find themselves in this position, they may find the deterrent a guideline to add on more crimes because it does not matter. In this case, if he knew about the punishment, he probably would have fled the country the next day. Making a crime go unpunished; if he just is flagged and cannot leave the country and has to pay 100k in fines, he might be a good citizen and pay taxes in the US the rest of his life. I cannot see these harsh punishments work well (and seems they do not as people keep doing crime more than elsewhere) but it is probably needed to get elected (soft on crime!!!).
- jfk13 8y ago
  > if he just is flagged and cannot leave the country and has to pay 100k in fines, he might be a good citizen and pay taxes in the US the rest of his life Yes, he might; or he might go through life wantonly destroying other people's property whenever he feels he has a grievance, as there don't seem to be any serious consequences for doing so. It's a hard question, and individuals vary so much (circumstances, motivations, character, ...) that generalised answers will often be wrong. But a justice system needs rules and standards of some kind.
  - tluyben2 8y ago
    > But a justice system needs rules and standards of some kind. Sure, but having to get a job (he has an MBA so he was planning to) and having the tax office take 70% of his wages until paid off (or allow him to pay off faster if he can) is not a light punishment while it does bring back some productivity. Jail time or over the top crazy punishments doesn't seem to help either and only costs society money. And then more money because the individual will most likely never recover after having spent some of his most productive years behind bars. The sore point here is ofcourse that he is on a student Visa in which case I think the punishment of giving him a criminal record and sending him back to India is harsh punishment in itself.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Most foreigners who can afford to come to the US for a post graduate education come from a relatively comfortable situation at home.
      - rhn_mk1 8y ago
        The problem with this is that law is not written exclusively for foreign postgrads.
        bdowling 8y ago
        That is not really a problem because there is usually a lot of flexibility given to the judge in sentencing. The judge can determine an appropriate sentence within the maximums (and sometimes minimums) set by the law.

tluyben2 8y ago

The deterrence is probably mostly for the group in (2) but because that group already knows what the punishment is because of the deterrence in said region, but find themselves (by whatever peer pressure, stupidity, drugs&alcohol) find themselves in this position, they may find the deterrent a guideline to add on more crimes because it does not matter. In this case, if he knew about the punishment, he probably would have fled the country the next day. Making a crime go unpunished; if he just is flagged and cannot leave the country and has to pay 100k in fines, he might be a good citizen and pay taxes in the US the rest of his life. I cannot see these harsh punishments work well (and seems they do not as people keep doing crime more than elsewhere) but it is probably needed to get elected (soft on crime!!!).

jfk13 8y ago
> if he just is flagged and cannot leave the country and has to pay 100k in fines, he might be a good citizen and pay taxes in the US the rest of his life Yes, he might; or he might go through life wantonly destroying other people's property whenever he feels he has a grievance, as there don't seem to be any serious consequences for doing so. It's a hard question, and individuals vary so much (circumstances, motivations, character, ...) that generalised answers will often be wrong. But a justice system needs rules and standards of some kind.
- tluyben2 8y ago
  > But a justice system needs rules and standards of some kind. Sure, but having to get a job (he has an MBA so he was planning to) and having the tax office take 70% of his wages until paid off (or allow him to pay off faster if he can) is not a light punishment while it does bring back some productivity. Jail time or over the top crazy punishments doesn't seem to help either and only costs society money. And then more money because the individual will most likely never recover after having spent some of his most productive years behind bars. The sore point here is ofcourse that he is on a student Visa in which case I think the punishment of giving him a criminal record and sending him back to India is harsh punishment in itself.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Most foreigners who can afford to come to the US for a post graduate education come from a relatively comfortable situation at home.
    - rhn_mk1 8y ago
      The problem with this is that law is not written exclusively for foreign postgrads.
      - bdowling 8y ago
        That is not really a problem because there is usually a lot of flexibility given to the judge in sentencing. The judge can determine an appropriate sentence within the maximums (and sometimes minimums) set by the law.