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> MBA ideas of an economic moat - lock-in, stickiness, etc - are "dark patterns". Dramatic statement. I am an SWE and an MBA. There are merits to thinking abou

> MBA ideas of an economic moat - lock-in, stickiness, etc - are "dark patterns". Dramatic statement. I am an SWE and an MBA. There are merits to thinking about every aspect of the business. Tech/Product is just one - an important one in a Saas company, but still just one. > But there are "light patterns": you can stay ahead in a technological race if you keep running; This is another way of saying "build it and they will come". You have to combine good business/economic sense with great products. Apple didn't just get to be Apple by staying ahead in a technological race. Arguably, they are behind a lot of other phone makers in specs. But they have a lot of people thinking about ecosystems, lock-in, marketing and other "MBA" concepts.

ColanR 7y ago
> There are merits to thinking about every aspect of the business. This isn't a refutation of the parent - all you've said is that sometimes those dark patterns are worth exploiting. I'm rarely one for defending an absolute, so I think it would be far more interesting to say why it is worth using a 'dark pattern'. So far, it just feels like you're deflecting through masking the issue.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  " all you've said is that sometimes those dark patterns are worth exploiting" Those are not 'dark patterns', moreover, the notion of building a quality experience is not beyond MBA's either.
- brlewis 7y ago
  "Dark pattern" has a more specific meaning than it seems like you're using here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
  - kbutler 7y ago
    "dark pattern" was a phrase in use before that neologism. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q="dark%20pattern" https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q="...
kettlecorn 7y ago
Apple's core strength has been product design sensibility. Their ability to exploit lock-in, to market well, to build an ecosystem have all derived from that original strength. > But they have a lot of people thinking about ecosystems, lock-in, marketing and other "MBA" concepts. People need to think about creating something of value that people want to use before they worry about locking them into an ecosystem.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Corollary is that lock in based only on inertia does not last top long. You have to be at least good enough for your core. As in, nothing vastly better has to be present.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

ColanR 7y ago

> There are merits to thinking about every aspect of the business. This isn't a refutation of the parent - all you've said is that sometimes those dark patterns are worth exploiting. I'm rarely one for defending an absolute, so I think it would be far more interesting to say why it is worth using a 'dark pattern'. So far, it just feels like you're deflecting through masking the issue.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
" all you've said is that sometimes those dark patterns are worth exploiting" Those are not 'dark patterns', moreover, the notion of building a quality experience is not beyond MBA's either.
brlewis 7y ago
"Dark pattern" has a more specific meaning than it seems like you're using here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
- kbutler 7y ago
  "dark pattern" was a phrase in use before that neologism. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q="dark%20pattern" https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q="...

kettlecorn 7y ago

Apple's core strength has been product design sensibility. Their ability to exploit lock-in, to market well, to build an ecosystem have all derived from that original strength. > But they have a lot of people thinking about ecosystems, lock-in, marketing and other "MBA" concepts. People need to think about creating something of value that people want to use before they worry about locking them into an ecosystem.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Corollary is that lock in based only on inertia does not last top long. You have to be at least good enough for your core. As in, nothing vastly better has to be present.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]