5 ms·

You are correct. The parent is mistaken, or at least exaggerating and at worst libelous. “KaiOS is based on the Firefox OS open-source project and we are commi

You are correct. The parent is mistaken, or at least exaggerating and at worst libelous. “KaiOS is based on the Firefox OS open-source project and we are committed to abide by the rules of the applicable open source licenses.” https://support.kaiostech.com/support/solutions/articles/35000078432-can-i-access-the-source-code- https://support.kaiostech.com/support/solutions/articles/350...

icebraining 7y ago
Frankly, that doesn't mean much; the MPL allows one to freely mix open and proprietary files on the same project. Sure, they can't literally close Mozilla's code, but they can still make their forked project mostly proprietary.
- anyzen 7y ago
  In other words, Android is "open source" too. But I still don't have control over my phone.
  - littlestymaar 7y ago
    You can install a plain AOSP and have (almost[1]) full control over your phone though. [1] almost, because every smartphone needs proprietary drivers to run …
    - dmos62 7y ago
      > every smartphone needs proprietary drivers Free phones are slowly popping up https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
      - littlestymaar 7y ago
        The librem looks nice but if I'm not misunderstanding, it's still pretty much vaporware at this point. I sincerely hope it reaches its goals though.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Next version of AOSP will have a smaller userspace.
    - mort96 7y ago
      No, you can't. Not when more and more phones ship with locked bootloaders and a smaller and smaller percentage of phones actually work well with some AOSP spin and none of the apps you use work without an unrooted, closed-source-Google-API-infested phone.
- lloydde 7y ago
  It means exactly what the license allows. Mostly proprietary seems a lot better than totally proprietary in the absence of open source alternatives. It’s bizarre to me when people complain about things like “tivoization” or “open core”. These are by design or they are solved problems if the creators care for the trade offs. That is the Mozilla community’s issue. They chose the licensing. They have revised the strategy a number of times. I remember when code was tri-licensed. Or it’s also a consumers issue. Money talks.
omnifischer 7y ago
But you cannot ever the source code of kaiOS. Despite several enquiries, they told me that ask the device manufacturer as we are NOT legally needed to provide you source. KaiOS is kind of open but not totally!
- pygy_ 7y ago
  This actually respects the license. The person who provided you the binary (the phone vendor, not KaiOS) must provide you the source that corresponds to your program (not the git history). KaiOS must provide the source to the phone vendor on request off course. That being said, this is the minimalist interpretation of the license, and not what is commonly understood as open source (where the repo is available somewhere, at the very least).
  - brazzledazzle 7y ago
    I wonder how difficult it is to get the source from the manufacturers. If it was trivial you'd think they'd avoid playing these games and just dump it as a tarball at the very least.
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      You just have to fill out the form in the disused lavatory next to the door marked "Beware of the leopard".
  - fabrice_d 7y ago
    See https://github.com/kaiostech https://github.com/kaiostech
    - pygy_ 7y ago
      So the repo is available! Thanks, I took @omnifischer at face value. Looking at the commit history, they keep on referencing bugs in a private tracker though (I know I'm moving the goal posts :-).

icebraining 7y ago

Frankly, that doesn't mean much; the MPL allows one to freely mix open and proprietary files on the same project. Sure, they can't literally close Mozilla's code, but they can still make their forked project mostly proprietary.

anyzen 7y ago
In other words, Android is "open source" too. But I still don't have control over my phone.
- littlestymaar 7y ago
  You can install a plain AOSP and have (almost[1]) full control over your phone though. [1] almost, because every smartphone needs proprietary drivers to run …
  - dmos62 7y ago
    > every smartphone needs proprietary drivers Free phones are slowly popping up https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
    - littlestymaar 7y ago
      The librem looks nice but if I'm not misunderstanding, it's still pretty much vaporware at this point. I sincerely hope it reaches its goals though.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Next version of AOSP will have a smaller userspace.
  - mort96 7y ago
    No, you can't. Not when more and more phones ship with locked bootloaders and a smaller and smaller percentage of phones actually work well with some AOSP spin and none of the apps you use work without an unrooted, closed-source-Google-API-infested phone.
lloydde 7y ago
It means exactly what the license allows. Mostly proprietary seems a lot better than totally proprietary in the absence of open source alternatives. It’s bizarre to me when people complain about things like “tivoization” or “open core”. These are by design or they are solved problems if the creators care for the trade offs. That is the Mozilla community’s issue. They chose the licensing. They have revised the strategy a number of times. I remember when code was tri-licensed. Or it’s also a consumers issue. Money talks.

omnifischer 7y ago

But you cannot ever the source code of kaiOS. Despite several enquiries, they told me that ask the device manufacturer as we are NOT legally needed to provide you source. KaiOS is kind of open but not totally!

pygy_ 7y ago
This actually respects the license. The person who provided you the binary (the phone vendor, not KaiOS) must provide you the source that corresponds to your program (not the git history). KaiOS must provide the source to the phone vendor on request off course. That being said, this is the minimalist interpretation of the license, and not what is commonly understood as open source (where the repo is available somewhere, at the very least).
- brazzledazzle 7y ago
  I wonder how difficult it is to get the source from the manufacturers. If it was trivial you'd think they'd avoid playing these games and just dump it as a tarball at the very least.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    You just have to fill out the form in the disused lavatory next to the door marked "Beware of the leopard".
- fabrice_d 7y ago
  See https://github.com/kaiostech https://github.com/kaiostech
  - pygy_ 7y ago
    So the repo is available! Thanks, I took @omnifischer at face value. Looking at the commit history, they keep on referencing bugs in a private tracker though (I know I'm moving the goal posts :-).