3 ms·

and... why not a black flag anyway?

by brooklyn_ashey 7y ago

jhbadger 7y ago
Before the Soviet Union, "red" didn't mean exclusively Communist. Many left-wing groups used red flags.
- johannes1234321 7y ago
  And it still do - lot's of social democratic parties over Europe use red. I.e. UK Labour Party or German SPD. Typically lighter red than communist groups.
  - drb91 7y ago
    The PSL and DSA also use red heavily.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Many anarchist groups use the black+red diagonal flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism#Bisected_flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism#Bisected_f...
Iv 7y ago
Anarchists used the socialist red flag most of the time. They switched to black flags when red flags became forbidden in protests e.g. in France after the repression of the Commune. They used a loophole there: they said that this was not a political symbol but a sign of sorrow and commemoration. Later on, communists and anarchists would part ways, mostly during the Russian revolutions even though some diverged earlier. But make no mistake, there is very little ambiguity in most historical anarchist movements: their ideals are socialists. The reason why a lot of them they rejected communism was not because of their socialist ideals, but because of the policies they implemented in practice, that were very authoritarian. Anarchists were very early considered political opponents by USSR. Censorship for instance is totally incompatible with anarchism.
- phillc73 7y ago
  Adding further detail in agreement. While many people are aware of the anarchist influence and success leading to the Spanish Civil War, much less well known is the large anarchist region established in southern Ukraine fifteen years earlier, between 1917 - 1922. This was centered around the figure of Nestor Makhno.[1] The armed forces defending this area had great success defeating various White armies and were allied with the Bolsheviks. Unfortunately, the Bolsheviks ultimately betrayed and destroyed the Makhnovshchina. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno
  - baud147258 7y ago
    In the Spanish civil war, weren't the anarchists (and other pro-republican groups) also betrayed by the communists?

and... why not a black flag anyway?

jhbadger 7y ago

Before the Soviet Union, "red" didn't mean exclusively Communist. Many left-wing groups used red flags.

johannes1234321 7y ago
And it still do - lot's of social democratic parties over Europe use red. I.e. UK Labour Party or German SPD. Typically lighter red than communist groups.
- drb91 7y ago
  The PSL and DSA also use red heavily.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Many anarchist groups use the black+red diagonal flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism#Bisected_flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism#Bisected_f...

Iv 7y ago

Anarchists used the socialist red flag most of the time. They switched to black flags when red flags became forbidden in protests e.g. in France after the repression of the Commune. They used a loophole there: they said that this was not a political symbol but a sign of sorrow and commemoration. Later on, communists and anarchists would part ways, mostly during the Russian revolutions even though some diverged earlier. But make no mistake, there is very little ambiguity in most historical anarchist movements: their ideals are socialists. The reason why a lot of them they rejected communism was not because of their socialist ideals, but because of the policies they implemented in practice, that were very authoritarian. Anarchists were very early considered political opponents by USSR. Censorship for instance is totally incompatible with anarchism.

phillc73 7y ago
Adding further detail in agreement. While many people are aware of the anarchist influence and success leading to the Spanish Civil War, much less well known is the large anarchist region established in southern Ukraine fifteen years earlier, between 1917 - 1922. This was centered around the figure of Nestor Makhno.[1] The armed forces defending this area had great success defeating various White armies and were allied with the Bolsheviks. Unfortunately, the Bolsheviks ultimately betrayed and destroyed the Makhnovshchina. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno
- baud147258 7y ago
  In the Spanish civil war, weren't the anarchists (and other pro-republican groups) also betrayed by the communists?