5 ms·

There’s got to be a monetary loss here. If there isn’t precedent for calculating that loss, such precedent should be established. Our email contacts are valuabl

There’s got to be a monetary loss here. If there isn’t precedent for calculating that loss, such precedent should be established. Our email contacts are valuable, especially at 150m user scale. We could have all banded together and sold them, had Facebook not stolen them. These users should be compensated.

matt4077 8y ago
“150m user scale” is an expression speaking to Facebook’s gain, not to any users’ loss. What’s needed is serious privacy legislation, not creative reinterpretation.
- dmitryminkovsky 8y ago
  Unfortunately not a lawyer so even my creative reinterpretation is moot but I was thinking along the lines of class action. Why can’t that group of people form a class? Is there really no damage here? Of course we need actual fundamental privacy protection.
chrisseaton 8y ago
I think 'monetary loss' has a bit more of a meaning of actual money or assets lost, not potential to earn money that you weren't really planning on using being lost. Not saying I think it's not an issue! But I don't think the term 'monetary loss' is applicable.
- dmitryminkovsky 8y ago
  Yeah you are probably right. For shame. Also, thanks for Graal!
hodder 8y ago
Of course. If the email contacts were of no value, Facebook wouldn't be taking them from accounts. People tend not to to steal worthless assets. Unfortunately, monetary loss for the user may be tougher to prove than monetary gain for the thief.
dahart 8y ago
> There’s got to be a monetary loss here. Our email contacts are valuable. Why? Nobody lost their contacts, so what’s the $ amount it cost them? Facebook claims they’re deleting them. If that’s true, then Facebook isn’t gaining from the contacts. If users don’t lose anything and if Facebook doesn’t gain anything, what is the monetary loss? > especially at 150m user scale Where’s that number coming from? The article talks about 1.5 million users. > We could have all banded together and sold them, had Facebook not stolen them. So while it’s entirely true that contacts should never be copied without consent, and that’s exactly what happened, I guess don’t forget that these users consciously gave Facebook their passwords. No matter how much I trust what someone says they’ll do, my email account password gives access to everything in my email account, I’ve always thought it was a terrible terrible idea to ever do it when connecting services together, for this very reason. I’m saying it’s partly the users responsibility, and the outcome here is predictable, because it has been predicted before by many people. BTW, nothing stopping you from banding together and selling email addresses now, if you think it’s a good idea... the blip with Facebook is not in any way preventing that from happening.
- threwawasy1228 8y ago
  >don’t forget that these users consciously gave Facebook their passwords. There is a lot of legal precedence about social engineering and how to prosecute it, this would completely fall under fraud. If I ask someone for their password to perform some service and they then I copy all of their data, that is a crime regardless of how stupid they are. This really doesn't matter at all in a case of fraud if you gave the password willingly, it is under false pretense. If someone asks me to give them something so that they can provide a service or take those things as an investment. I willingly give them those things yes, but we have a written, verbal, or implied contract that they will do and will not do certain things with that information. Failure to follow our agreement and instead robbing me is a crime.
  - dahart 8y ago
    Hey I’m 100% with you. I’m not defending Facebook, and it’s crazy they ask for passwords. But just because Facebook’s at fault doesn’t mean that it’s okay as a user to give out your password, nor does it mean that you lost any money when contacts are copied, right? The words “stealing” and “robbing” don’t really convey what happened here, even in the case Facebook isn’t telling the truth.

matt4077 8y ago

“150m user scale” is an expression speaking to Facebook’s gain, not to any users’ loss. What’s needed is serious privacy legislation, not creative reinterpretation.

dmitryminkovsky 8y ago
Unfortunately not a lawyer so even my creative reinterpretation is moot but I was thinking along the lines of class action. Why can’t that group of people form a class? Is there really no damage here? Of course we need actual fundamental privacy protection.

chrisseaton 8y ago

I think 'monetary loss' has a bit more of a meaning of actual money or assets lost, not potential to earn money that you weren't really planning on using being lost. Not saying I think it's not an issue! But I don't think the term 'monetary loss' is applicable.

dmitryminkovsky 8y ago
Yeah you are probably right. For shame. Also, thanks for Graal!

hodder 8y ago

Of course. If the email contacts were of no value, Facebook wouldn't be taking them from accounts. People tend not to to steal worthless assets. Unfortunately, monetary loss for the user may be tougher to prove than monetary gain for the thief.

dahart 8y ago

> There’s got to be a monetary loss here. Our email contacts are valuable. Why? Nobody lost their contacts, so what’s the $ amount it cost them? Facebook claims they’re deleting them. If that’s true, then Facebook isn’t gaining from the contacts. If users don’t lose anything and if Facebook doesn’t gain anything, what is the monetary loss? > especially at 150m user scale Where’s that number coming from? The article talks about 1.5 million users. > We could have all banded together and sold them, had Facebook not stolen them. So while it’s entirely true that contacts should never be copied without consent, and that’s exactly what happened, I guess don’t forget that these users consciously gave Facebook their passwords. No matter how much I trust what someone says they’ll do, my email account password gives access to everything in my email account, I’ve always thought it was a terrible terrible idea to ever do it when connecting services together, for this very reason. I’m saying it’s partly the users responsibility, and the outcome here is predictable, because it has been predicted before by many people. BTW, nothing stopping you from banding together and selling email addresses now, if you think it’s a good idea... the blip with Facebook is not in any way preventing that from happening.

threwawasy1228 8y ago
>don’t forget that these users consciously gave Facebook their passwords. There is a lot of legal precedence about social engineering and how to prosecute it, this would completely fall under fraud. If I ask someone for their password to perform some service and they then I copy all of their data, that is a crime regardless of how stupid they are. This really doesn't matter at all in a case of fraud if you gave the password willingly, it is under false pretense. If someone asks me to give them something so that they can provide a service or take those things as an investment. I willingly give them those things yes, but we have a written, verbal, or implied contract that they will do and will not do certain things with that information. Failure to follow our agreement and instead robbing me is a crime.
- dahart 8y ago
  Hey I’m 100% with you. I’m not defending Facebook, and it’s crazy they ask for passwords. But just because Facebook’s at fault doesn’t mean that it’s okay as a user to give out your password, nor does it mean that you lost any money when contacts are copied, right? The words “stealing” and “robbing” don’t really convey what happened here, even in the case Facebook isn’t telling the truth.