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A common practice is to keep developers unaware of the real objective of their work (like Uber, in another comment on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1

A common practice is to keep developers unaware of the real objective of their work (like Uber, in another comment on HN, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13786384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13786384): - developer A is tasked to create the prompt to ask for username and password of the email account - developer B is tasked to call some API to upload contacts from email account - developer C is tasked to bind two functionalities. Now replace developers with teams and you see how simple is for the average developer to underestimate the scope and the ethical bounds of a given task.

codedokode 7y ago
That looks too compilcated. Will you also use several different QA engineers and several product managers for this?
- w0m 7y ago
  .. isn't that how larger scale projects are done?
  - jtms 7y ago
    I’m dead serious when I say that no two large scale projects are done the same way. I have seen many and can tell you the possibilities are infinite how it gets approached
- sidlls 7y ago
  Yes, work at large organizations with a lot of different features and products, often having complicated interactions, is not trivial.
numbsafari 7y ago
That implies that you, as a developer, then hear new stories like this one and simply ignore any role you may or may not have had in the situation. It implies that you simply ignore that your manager or engineering leadership are asking you to do things that are unethical without informing you about how your work will be used. It implies that you continue to work for that leadership knowing that they will lie to you, hide their true intentions, and use your labor to execute profoundly unethical practices. It's not news at this point to anyone working at FB what their leadership is engaged in, and what their work is being used to accomplish. Perhaps several years ago you could claim some kind of ignorance. That's no longer the case. You know who you work for. Own it.
- corodra 7y ago
  I’m more surprised that people are still being “surprised” that Facebook isn’t a wholesome company out to make the world a better place through algorithmic social manipulation.
corodra 7y ago
Let’s not be ignorant of the idea of one or two senior developers each given a suitcase full of cash. It’s not like learning to program magically gives you unbreakable ethics. Even at this point, you’re not getting a mass exodus of workers from Facebook. Those in there are choosing to be there at this point. Koolaid or not. But you are right, scope creep in the “unethical” aspects and it can suddenly be “no one’s fault”. That isn’t a bad plan.
- CPLX 7y ago
  > It’s not like learning to program magically gives you unbreakable ethics. Indeed.
- tomp 7y ago
  I’m not one of them, but let me play the devil’s advocate... You’re getting paid 2x market salary (“market” here being non-Facebook and non-Google, which isn’t any better) and delivering services to people who voluntarily sign up ro them... I mean there are worse jobs in the world.
  - corodra 7y ago
    “I have an idea” “That’s a really dick of an idea and I’m pretty sure it’s illegal. Exactly how illegal, I’m not sure. But I know illegal to some degree.” “You live in a shit apartment because housing prices are stupid and makes your salary meaningless in this town. Here’s a wheelbarrow full of hundreds and we all agree it was an accident.” “When do you need it by?”
zaarn 7y ago
And there will be no oversight or testing of the prompt, the API or the people bringing the two together? Nobody will test this? No developer in team C will consider what they're doing?
- corodra 7y ago
  Of course there’s testing. It amounts to: return true; Return true is tested to still work. But seriously. There’s no accident in what happened. This is Facebook. Anyone who thinks Facebook isn’t morally corrupt probably also says “What do you mean Stalin wasn’t a pacifist?”
pdkl95 7y ago
Mushroom management: feed them shit and keep 'em in the dark. Unfortunately, this ha-ha-only-serious joke is least several decades old.

codedokode 7y ago

That looks too compilcated. Will you also use several different QA engineers and several product managers for this?

w0m 7y ago
.. isn't that how larger scale projects are done?
- jtms 7y ago
  I’m dead serious when I say that no two large scale projects are done the same way. I have seen many and can tell you the possibilities are infinite how it gets approached
sidlls 7y ago
Yes, work at large organizations with a lot of different features and products, often having complicated interactions, is not trivial.

numbsafari 7y ago

That implies that you, as a developer, then hear new stories like this one and simply ignore any role you may or may not have had in the situation. It implies that you simply ignore that your manager or engineering leadership are asking you to do things that are unethical without informing you about how your work will be used. It implies that you continue to work for that leadership knowing that they will lie to you, hide their true intentions, and use your labor to execute profoundly unethical practices. It's not news at this point to anyone working at FB what their leadership is engaged in, and what their work is being used to accomplish. Perhaps several years ago you could claim some kind of ignorance. That's no longer the case. You know who you work for. Own it.

corodra 7y ago
I’m more surprised that people are still being “surprised” that Facebook isn’t a wholesome company out to make the world a better place through algorithmic social manipulation.

corodra 7y ago

Let’s not be ignorant of the idea of one or two senior developers each given a suitcase full of cash. It’s not like learning to program magically gives you unbreakable ethics. Even at this point, you’re not getting a mass exodus of workers from Facebook. Those in there are choosing to be there at this point. Koolaid or not. But you are right, scope creep in the “unethical” aspects and it can suddenly be “no one’s fault”. That isn’t a bad plan.

CPLX 7y ago
> It’s not like learning to program magically gives you unbreakable ethics. Indeed.
tomp 7y ago
I’m not one of them, but let me play the devil’s advocate... You’re getting paid 2x market salary (“market” here being non-Facebook and non-Google, which isn’t any better) and delivering services to people who voluntarily sign up ro them... I mean there are worse jobs in the world.
- corodra 7y ago
  “I have an idea” “That’s a really dick of an idea and I’m pretty sure it’s illegal. Exactly how illegal, I’m not sure. But I know illegal to some degree.” “You live in a shit apartment because housing prices are stupid and makes your salary meaningless in this town. Here’s a wheelbarrow full of hundreds and we all agree it was an accident.” “When do you need it by?”

zaarn 7y ago

And there will be no oversight or testing of the prompt, the API or the people bringing the two together? Nobody will test this? No developer in team C will consider what they're doing?

corodra 7y ago
Of course there’s testing. It amounts to: return true; Return true is tested to still work. But seriously. There’s no accident in what happened. This is Facebook. Anyone who thinks Facebook isn’t morally corrupt probably also says “What do you mean Stalin wasn’t a pacifist?”

pdkl95 7y ago

Mushroom management: feed them shit and keep 'em in the dark. Unfortunately, this ha-ha-only-serious joke is least several decades old.