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Think bigger-picture. Not only do you have to trust these corporations with your data, but also the data of your family, friends and community. Not only now, bu

Think bigger-picture. Not only do you have to trust these corporations with your data, but also the data of your family, friends and community. Not only now, but through future changes in political climate, regimes, and cultural shifts. You have to trust every employee who has or has ever had access to that data. You may not feel that the targetting of political opponents (or, forfend, ethnicities) using such data is likely or realistic, but there is recent historical precedent even in the US. "The only bad effects I can think of are if Google or Facebook starts leaking all my data, and it being personally identifiable" What's the worse that could happen in that case, multiplied across your entire community or nation? It does not even have to be personally identifiable to do damage. It could, for instance, correlate your clothing and hair style preferences with likely political affiliation, to start. Let me know if you find any of this incredible, and I can find sources. Ps: I dont understand your being down-voted. Your question is a reasonable one.

thinkloop 8y ago
Part of op's point is that this exercise only works when you "think bigger-picture", but in practice it hasn't been panning out. Things have already been leaked, and what has the material damage been? Doesn't seem like much so far, especially weighed against the benefits. I personally don't agree, but I believe that was op's point. I think the low probability dystopian possibilities are severe enough to outweigh the casual benefits.
- rendall 8y ago
  << I think the low probability dystopian possibilities are severe enough to outweigh the casual benefits. >> I agree, although perhaps I am hypocritical, because I use gmail and google maps. I have jettisoned FB though. <<Things have already been leaked, and what has the material damage been?>> I think you're probably right, that this was their main point. To address it, I'll just briefly point to (Edit: I may not have directly addressed their point here, but I dont think personally that I need to actually see something bad happen on US soil to assume it can't or won't happen if there is no principle to prevent it) - the myriad oppressive regimes and violent drug cartels that use even publicly-available information to target political opponents. - the ability of even casual users to create advertisements targeting (or excluding) ever-smaller circles of identifiable traits - vast and secret subpoena powers by the US government and her allies - severe political polarization centered on the US, in which the government and its powers flip poles every few years: what is okay for "our guy" to do (e.g. secret assassination lists, secret trials, rendition) will be available for "their guy" in a short while. - AI being to identify ever-accurate and surprising correlations between lifestyle choices and political views. Hopefully, nothing bad will happen.
- piokoch 8y ago
  Information about can be used against you in many different ways: you can get higher prices in online stores (if, for instance, online store gets data that you are a rich person). You can get higher insurance price if you insurer knows "something" about you or you can be denied insurance at all if they suspect that you are, say, an addict (and this does not have to be true, some "clever" AI will just qualify you as an 34% addict and good luck if such nonsense data, derived by some SF "move fast, break things" startup, will be interpreted in a sensible way by the insurer). From the information Google/FB has they can derive that someone has a mistress and those who will learn that might try to blackmail such person. Or someone is looking for a new job and informed person can sell this konwledge to one's current employer.
  - Karunamon 8y ago
    This is non-responsive to GP's point, though. This is all hypothetical. Where's the actual, concrete, demonstrated harm? "Someone in the future might do something untoward" is not concrete.
    - rendall 8y ago
      GP's point was that they could only think of bad things happening if these companies leaked personally identifiable data. If I have not successfully addressed that specific point, demonstrating that there are worse things, then I do not know how to.
- vageli 8y ago
  Facebook used to have "potentially treasonous" [0] as a user attribute that advertisers, etc could use to target users. This is only the beginning. I have no doubt that more conservative regimes have used their legal systems to compel Facebook to hand over all information on all gay users, for example. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/facebook-as-the-ultimate-government-surveillance-tool/ol/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/faceboo...
  - sciurus 8y ago
    Do you have another source? That link 404s.
    - vageli 8y ago
      Goodness, I am a dunce and miscopied on my phone. Forgive me! https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/facebook-as-the-ultimate-government-surveillance-tool/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/faceboo...

thinkloop 8y ago

Part of op's point is that this exercise only works when you "think bigger-picture", but in practice it hasn't been panning out. Things have already been leaked, and what has the material damage been? Doesn't seem like much so far, especially weighed against the benefits. I personally don't agree, but I believe that was op's point. I think the low probability dystopian possibilities are severe enough to outweigh the casual benefits.

rendall 8y ago
<< I think the low probability dystopian possibilities are severe enough to outweigh the casual benefits. >> I agree, although perhaps I am hypocritical, because I use gmail and google maps. I have jettisoned FB though. <<Things have already been leaked, and what has the material damage been?>> I think you're probably right, that this was their main point. To address it, I'll just briefly point to (Edit: I may not have directly addressed their point here, but I dont think personally that I need to actually see something bad happen on US soil to assume it can't or won't happen if there is no principle to prevent it) - the myriad oppressive regimes and violent drug cartels that use even publicly-available information to target political opponents. - the ability of even casual users to create advertisements targeting (or excluding) ever-smaller circles of identifiable traits - vast and secret subpoena powers by the US government and her allies - severe political polarization centered on the US, in which the government and its powers flip poles every few years: what is okay for "our guy" to do (e.g. secret assassination lists, secret trials, rendition) will be available for "their guy" in a short while. - AI being to identify ever-accurate and surprising correlations between lifestyle choices and political views. Hopefully, nothing bad will happen.
piokoch 8y ago
Information about can be used against you in many different ways: you can get higher prices in online stores (if, for instance, online store gets data that you are a rich person). You can get higher insurance price if you insurer knows "something" about you or you can be denied insurance at all if they suspect that you are, say, an addict (and this does not have to be true, some "clever" AI will just qualify you as an 34% addict and good luck if such nonsense data, derived by some SF "move fast, break things" startup, will be interpreted in a sensible way by the insurer). From the information Google/FB has they can derive that someone has a mistress and those who will learn that might try to blackmail such person. Or someone is looking for a new job and informed person can sell this konwledge to one's current employer.
- Karunamon 8y ago
  This is non-responsive to GP's point, though. This is all hypothetical. Where's the actual, concrete, demonstrated harm? "Someone in the future might do something untoward" is not concrete.
  - rendall 8y ago
    GP's point was that they could only think of bad things happening if these companies leaked personally identifiable data. If I have not successfully addressed that specific point, demonstrating that there are worse things, then I do not know how to.
vageli 8y ago
Facebook used to have "potentially treasonous" [0] as a user attribute that advertisers, etc could use to target users. This is only the beginning. I have no doubt that more conservative regimes have used their legal systems to compel Facebook to hand over all information on all gay users, for example. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/facebook-as-the-ultimate-government-surveillance-tool/ol/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/faceboo...
- sciurus 8y ago
  Do you have another source? That link 404s.
  - vageli 8y ago
    Goodness, I am a dunce and miscopied on my phone. Forgive me! https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/facebook-as-the-ultimate-government-surveillance-tool/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/07/20/faceboo...