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I appreciated the article but was feeling the same way. Mainly the portion about working primarily in VR and refurnishing the lab for reclining on the floor as

by uxp100 8y ago

I appreciated the article but was feeling the same way. Mainly the portion about working primarily in VR and refurnishing the lab for reclining on the floor as a result. It's interesting, but foreign to me. Strange Days and Existenz are cool movies and all, but I just don't find VR that compelling. I'm glad someone is working to find meaningful experiences in these new mediums though.

Impossible 8y ago
Have you tried 6DOF VR? There are a ton of issues with current VR systems but your comment makes it seem like your only reference point is sci-fi movies...
- uxp100 8y ago
  No, seems like its becoming more mainstream so maybe this year I will try it. But screens attached to your eyes can only be so compelling. At least in the movies it makes sense to work in these truly immersive environments. Working with an HMD sounds like hell.
sp332 8y ago
M Eifler has been experimenting and creating stuff in VR pretty much every day and has been for years. I consider them a super creative pioneer and they really have an embodied sense of what works in VR. http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ It's the kind of mastery of a medium that comes from "serious play", where someone's not afraid to just explore new ideas for the sense of discovery. And they keep notes on what works and what doesn't. http://elevr.com/would-you-like-to-see-an-invisible-sculpture/ http://elevr.com/would-you-like-to-see-an-invisible-sculptur... I wish basic research like this was funded to the hilt, and that VR designers actually read the results, just to see that they don't have to invent interaction design from scratch.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Huh, such different perspectives indeed. The concept of a VR workshop is a dream for me. It may have nowhere near the same fidelity as reality, but it solves one important problem: tools and material. There's plenty of stuff I'd love to tinker with that's just way too expensive and/or take too much time to acquire. For instance, there are some 3D constructions I'd play with, but I don't have a 3D printer (it's a PITA to operate, and I gave pieces of my last one to a hackerspace anyway). I have some ideas for a hardware product I'd like to test out, but no SMD soldering skills, no space for it, none of the more expensive electronics debugging tools, and one or two components in the initial design that are expensive and would take a month to ship. I could afford it, but I can't justify it. I couldn't afford it when I first came up with an idea. I can't imagine your average teenage tinkerer affording it either. Now imagine that in a half-decent VR environment with real physics, a circuit designer and a basic circuit simulator, I could build a simulacrum of my project in hours, and then iterate on it even faster. I could build and throw away 100s of prototypes, for free and without waiting for parts. In the end, I'd have some idea whether the project is worth making real, and I'd have circuit designs and firmware to test out in the real world. Speaking of environments, I've been in love with Bret Victor's "Seeing Spaces" idea for a while[0]. I thought long and hard about what it would take to build one in our hackerspace, and realized that this idea needs a lot of prototyping beforehand. Given a set of measurements on the thing you're doing (and the imprecision of the way they're collected), will it be helpful? Will the way it's displayed be annoying? Does it let you explore the project space faster? What kind of affordances can be provided? It dawned to me that it doesn't make sense to start shopping for actual hardware to test it all out - VR could be used to quickly test concepts and gain a good idea of which solutions would work instead. Now I'm slowly saving up for VR hardware that will work well with my (rather strong) correction glasses... -- [0] - http://worrydream.com/SeeingSpaces/ http://worrydream.com/SeeingSpaces/
- uxp100 8y ago
  This doesn't make sense to me at all. Surely you could prototype faster with existing EDA tools that some VR tool where you "built" the circuit in VR. You can already do sophisticated simulation without VR, you don't need a VR environment to do what you describe as basic circuit simulation. And you will need electronics debugging tools in the end when you want to actually build the item, unless it will remain only in the VR environment.
  - trentlott 8y ago
    There's very little novelty in what VR provides - it just provides a significant enhancement in the experience Also, limitations can breed efficiency - by being constrained to a 2D projection, the interactions are simplified and streamlined VR provides the same goals and expects utility (fun, efficiency) from the process. Its fun and interesting, but I haven't seen anything groundbreaking. Frankly, I think VR and FB are a good match for another reason - they both provide an overwhelming, dissociating experience This can be a boon, but like sugar and opiates I worry that they're more social or sensory information than we can take in chronically - unfortunately, huge amounts of money and thought and technology is aimed at maximizing our intake to pad coffers. I'm not sad AR/VR adoption is lacklustre

by uxp100 8y ago

Impossible 8y ago

Have you tried 6DOF VR? There are a ton of issues with current VR systems but your comment makes it seem like your only reference point is sci-fi movies...

uxp100 8y ago
No, seems like its becoming more mainstream so maybe this year I will try it. But screens attached to your eyes can only be so compelling. At least in the movies it makes sense to work in these truly immersive environments. Working with an HMD sounds like hell.

sp332 8y ago

M Eifler has been experimenting and creating stuff in VR pretty much every day and has been for years. I consider them a super creative pioneer and they really have an embodied sense of what works in VR. http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ It's the kind of mastery of a medium that comes from "serious play", where someone's not afraid to just explore new ideas for the sense of discovery. And they keep notes on what works and what doesn't. http://elevr.com/would-you-like-to-see-an-invisible-sculpture/ http://elevr.com/would-you-like-to-see-an-invisible-sculptur... I wish basic research like this was funded to the hilt, and that VR designers actually read the results, just to see that they don't have to invent interaction design from scratch.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Huh, such different perspectives indeed. The concept of a VR workshop is a dream for me. It may have nowhere near the same fidelity as reality, but it solves one important problem: tools and material. There's plenty of stuff I'd love to tinker with that's just way too expensive and/or take too much time to acquire. For instance, there are some 3D constructions I'd play with, but I don't have a 3D printer (it's a PITA to operate, and I gave pieces of my last one to a hackerspace anyway). I have some ideas for a hardware product I'd like to test out, but no SMD soldering skills, no space for it, none of the more expensive electronics debugging tools, and one or two components in the initial design that are expensive and would take a month to ship. I could afford it, but I can't justify it. I couldn't afford it when I first came up with an idea. I can't imagine your average teenage tinkerer affording it either. Now imagine that in a half-decent VR environment with real physics, a circuit designer and a basic circuit simulator, I could build a simulacrum of my project in hours, and then iterate on it even faster. I could build and throw away 100s of prototypes, for free and without waiting for parts. In the end, I'd have some idea whether the project is worth making real, and I'd have circuit designs and firmware to test out in the real world. Speaking of environments, I've been in love with Bret Victor's "Seeing Spaces" idea for a while[0]. I thought long and hard about what it would take to build one in our hackerspace, and realized that this idea needs a lot of prototyping beforehand. Given a set of measurements on the thing you're doing (and the imprecision of the way they're collected), will it be helpful? Will the way it's displayed be annoying? Does it let you explore the project space faster? What kind of affordances can be provided? It dawned to me that it doesn't make sense to start shopping for actual hardware to test it all out - VR could be used to quickly test concepts and gain a good idea of which solutions would work instead. Now I'm slowly saving up for VR hardware that will work well with my (rather strong) correction glasses... -- [0] - http://worrydream.com/SeeingSpaces/ http://worrydream.com/SeeingSpaces/

uxp100 8y ago
This doesn't make sense to me at all. Surely you could prototype faster with existing EDA tools that some VR tool where you "built" the circuit in VR. You can already do sophisticated simulation without VR, you don't need a VR environment to do what you describe as basic circuit simulation. And you will need electronics debugging tools in the end when you want to actually build the item, unless it will remain only in the VR environment.
- trentlott 8y ago
  There's very little novelty in what VR provides - it just provides a significant enhancement in the experience Also, limitations can breed efficiency - by being constrained to a 2D projection, the interactions are simplified and streamlined VR provides the same goals and expects utility (fun, efficiency) from the process. Its fun and interesting, but I haven't seen anything groundbreaking. Frankly, I think VR and FB are a good match for another reason - they both provide an overwhelming, dissociating experience This can be a boon, but like sugar and opiates I worry that they're more social or sensory information than we can take in chronically - unfortunately, huge amounts of money and thought and technology is aimed at maximizing our intake to pad coffers. I'm not sad AR/VR adoption is lacklustre