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I'm sorry but taking a 'both sides' stance here is remarkably disingenuous and ignores the current reason why anti-vaxxers exist. We, as a society, already mak

I'm sorry but taking a 'both sides' stance here is remarkably disingenuous and ignores the current reason why anti-vaxxers exist. We, as a society, already make exceptions for people who cannot have vaccines. I would know, as I went through an incredibly bad allergic reaction to vaccines as a child. You can ask anyone advocating for vaccinations and they will tell you that yes, vaccines can have side effects and people can have adverse reactions. The root cause of the anti-vaxx movement isn't those people. It's people who take a purely ideological stance against vaccines, ignoring the scientific fact that vaccines in general are safe in favor of believing that vaccines cause autism or any number of bullshit things created by quacks. People are abusing exceptions to vaccinations and in turn are directly threatening people like myself who may not have an actual choice in the matter. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't use people like me as a smokescreen for those that threaten my well-being.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
So I'd appreciate it if you didn't use people like me as a smokescreen for those that threaten my well-being. I stopped getting an annual flu shot because people who were strongly antivax were helping me get well after doctors wrote me off for dead, basically. I'm not using people like you as a smokescreen. I'm talking about my own life. I've been given absolute hell for my medical choices, including my decision to stop getting a flu shot. (Never mind that my choices have gotten good results. That ends up being some new excuse to attack and dismiss me.)
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  When you choose to not vaccinate, you're no longer talking about just your life. You're talking about the lives of those around you. You cannot frame the argument solely in terms of 'your own life' unless we're talking about vaccinations for diseases that don't spread across the population. The flu may be milder than most diseases, but the flu can and does kill people. Including those that are young and healthy. People give you absolute hell for it because it's a selfish line of thought if you don't actually have a good excuse for not vaccinating. And the anti-vaxx movement more often than not does not have a good excuse.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    So it's okay for you to not vaccinate because you have a good excuse. It's not okay for me to skip a historically non mandatory vaccine, nor to advocate for my own right to protect my own life and health. This is exactly the line of reasoning I'm criticizing. This is the type of ugly argument that radicalizes people with serious health issues who find it beneficial to not vaccinate, but don't have "the right excuse" to make that okay for them. You were all up in arms at the idea that I was talking about you. You are still being attacking when it's my life on the line here. There's no actual logical consistency here.
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      Okay then, let's establish a baseline: What, exactly then, is your reason for skipping vaccination? What is your exact reason? I've given mine for why I have had to avoid some vaccines in the past. Because as I've established above, people who cannot get vaccines for legitimate health reasons (such as allergic reactions or compromised immune systems) are already protected by the system that exists. Otherwise if you're denying vaccines for ideological reasons: You are threatening the lives of other people for no good reason.
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        I've already stated my reason above: people who were helping to save my life recommended against them and skipping them has proven beneficial. I'm supposed to be dead. Much of the world has a very big problem with my rude failure to die on schedule from a condition so bad it's classified as a dread disease. Your further insistence that I owe you some kind of explanation for my personal medical choice flies in the face of HIPAA, something I had annual training in when I had a job with a Fortune 500 company.
gnicholas 8y ago
> You can ask anyone advocating for vaccinations and they will tell you that yes, vaccines can have side effects and people can have adverse reactions. This isn’t my experience. Most people I know refer to people who do not vaccinate their kids as “antivax wackos” because they (my friends) believe that vaccines are almost 100% effective and 100% harmless. If they thought there were side effects or adverse reactions they couldn’t paint all people who don’t vaccinate with the “wacko” brush. I’m glad to hear that you have encountered people who are more enlightened, but I wanted to point out that this is not everyone’s experience. Note: I have vaccinated my kids and I regularly get the flu shot. I live in Silicon Valley, for context of where I’m encountering the folks I described. EDIT: can you explain why you’re downvoting this? Do you doubt that this is my experience, find it irrelevant, or something else?
- tiltedmood 8y ago
  Anyone who is able of vaccinating themselves or their kids, but chooses not to for reasons other than “allergic to the vaccine” ARE antivax wackos.
- gnicholas 8y ago
  Looks like the dead reply to my comment proved my point!

DoreenMichele 8y ago

So I'd appreciate it if you didn't use people like me as a smokescreen for those that threaten my well-being. I stopped getting an annual flu shot because people who were strongly antivax were helping me get well after doctors wrote me off for dead, basically. I'm not using people like you as a smokescreen. I'm talking about my own life. I've been given absolute hell for my medical choices, including my decision to stop getting a flu shot. (Never mind that my choices have gotten good results. That ends up being some new excuse to attack and dismiss me.)

fzeroracer 8y ago
When you choose to not vaccinate, you're no longer talking about just your life. You're talking about the lives of those around you. You cannot frame the argument solely in terms of 'your own life' unless we're talking about vaccinations for diseases that don't spread across the population. The flu may be milder than most diseases, but the flu can and does kill people. Including those that are young and healthy. People give you absolute hell for it because it's a selfish line of thought if you don't actually have a good excuse for not vaccinating. And the anti-vaxx movement more often than not does not have a good excuse.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  So it's okay for you to not vaccinate because you have a good excuse. It's not okay for me to skip a historically non mandatory vaccine, nor to advocate for my own right to protect my own life and health. This is exactly the line of reasoning I'm criticizing. This is the type of ugly argument that radicalizes people with serious health issues who find it beneficial to not vaccinate, but don't have "the right excuse" to make that okay for them. You were all up in arms at the idea that I was talking about you. You are still being attacking when it's my life on the line here. There's no actual logical consistency here.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    Okay then, let's establish a baseline: What, exactly then, is your reason for skipping vaccination? What is your exact reason? I've given mine for why I have had to avoid some vaccines in the past. Because as I've established above, people who cannot get vaccines for legitimate health reasons (such as allergic reactions or compromised immune systems) are already protected by the system that exists. Otherwise if you're denying vaccines for ideological reasons: You are threatening the lives of other people for no good reason.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      I've already stated my reason above: people who were helping to save my life recommended against them and skipping them has proven beneficial. I'm supposed to be dead. Much of the world has a very big problem with my rude failure to die on schedule from a condition so bad it's classified as a dread disease. Your further insistence that I owe you some kind of explanation for my personal medical choice flies in the face of HIPAA, something I had annual training in when I had a job with a Fortune 500 company.

gnicholas 8y ago

> You can ask anyone advocating for vaccinations and they will tell you that yes, vaccines can have side effects and people can have adverse reactions. This isn’t my experience. Most people I know refer to people who do not vaccinate their kids as “antivax wackos” because they (my friends) believe that vaccines are almost 100% effective and 100% harmless. If they thought there were side effects or adverse reactions they couldn’t paint all people who don’t vaccinate with the “wacko” brush. I’m glad to hear that you have encountered people who are more enlightened, but I wanted to point out that this is not everyone’s experience. Note: I have vaccinated my kids and I regularly get the flu shot. I live in Silicon Valley, for context of where I’m encountering the folks I described. EDIT: can you explain why you’re downvoting this? Do you doubt that this is my experience, find it irrelevant, or something else?

tiltedmood 8y ago
Anyone who is able of vaccinating themselves or their kids, but chooses not to for reasons other than “allergic to the vaccine” ARE antivax wackos.
gnicholas 8y ago
Looks like the dead reply to my comment proved my point!