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> 1. (OP here) I doubt I could easily get a tenured position somewhere else today, because I have not published much in the last few years, due to focusing on C

> 1. (OP here) I doubt I could easily get a tenured position somewhere else today, because I have not published much in the last few years, due to focusing on CoCalc. I also I have a 2-body problem (my wife is an academic), which would make getting another position in academia that much harder. > 2. Do you still need money? Yes. In fact, I didn't save enough as a college math professor to retire while living in Seattle (an expensive place)! > The fact that the company is not ramen profitable in 7 years The company is not profitable, but it is "ramen profitable" according to http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html. Without getting into details, the bank balance goes down a little each month since we pay hosting and for four fulltime employees (we have about 2 years of runway). However, we're close to profitable. If we instead had only three employees (or paid ourselves less), then we would be profitable. If we had just one employee (me), then I would be making a LOT more money than I made working at UW, though I would likely be much less happy (the other three people working on CoCalc are fantastic!).

ianai 8y ago
Do not leave that tenured position!! The market has been pumped up so hard that you should be making stability-reinforcing life choices. There’s also just nothing comparable to the benefits of being a tenured professor in the modern labor market short of winning the lottery. Find a way to make it work with fewer people or look for other ways to increase your revenue/demand.
- williamstein 8y ago
  > There’s also just nothing comparable to the benefits of being a tenured professor in the modern labor market short of winning the lottery. Having a few million dollars in the bank is comparable to being a tenured professor, at least in terms of guaranteed income. (Of course, I don't have millions of dollars in the bank.) Maybe that's what you meant by "winning the lottery", e.g., that phrase is sometimes used to refer to startup founders who sell their company.
  - ianai 8y ago
    No I mean the modern labor market is horrible outside of the very hard to get positions at the FANGs. Have you researched what working and work culture are like? Read some of the Rachel by the bay blogs. You have a quality of life as a tenured professor that you simply won’t anywhere else. Especially as a “startup founder”. There’s a reason the valley takes them straight out of college graduation. Do Not Leave Your Professorship. You will regret it.
    - war1025 8y ago
      This seems like a very warped view of the world. The US economy is doing pretty well. The main worry people have is that it is doing too well and will lead to a crash at some point. Unemployment is basically non-existent in many parts of the country. Wages are finally starting to go up, after being stagnant since 2008. Putting up with poor working conditions is mostly poor decision making, especially in tech.
      - ianai 8y ago
        Inverted yield curve Decreasing job creation numbers Looming Brexit Recent Fed decisions to raise rates and more recently leave them unchanged. Investment choices, “beta”, should reflect a heightened risk aversion for people later in their careers. That’s just standard financial planning. I could even make a case for stagnant wages suddenly increasing indicating irregularities necessitating caution in financial and career decisions.
treis 8y ago
>The company is not profitable, but it is "ramen profitable" according to http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html. Without getting into details, the bank balance goes down a little each month since we pay hosting and for four fulltime employees (we have about 2 years of runway). However, we're close to profitable. Are you drawing a salary out of this?
- williamstein 8y ago
  > Are you drawing a salary out of this? Yes, though it is currently significantly less than UW paid me.
xrd 8y ago
I'm a proud UW CS graduate so this story is thrilling. It was mentioned at times in your article that you used your network to seek advice on the next steps for the business. Have you used the UW network to seek business advice from people not in academia and not in the math field? If you are supporting four people, not all of whom are developers, that's an amazing place to be, imho. If you are supporting four developers, it's even more admirable AND probably time to involve someone who can think exclusively about how to grow the business and does not think about engineering tasks. There is a huge network of former UW people involved in the software industry in Seattle who would help if you are at that moment to consider it. Maybe you've already done this, your article makes it sound like you have been very thorough in investigating how to take this to the next level, but it wasn't mentioned explicitly. I know some people like this, reach out to me if you want connections to them. Here's to your future success!
o2iur98nfosd 8y ago
As a former tenured professor who recently left their position, I wish you the best of luck. It's a difficult decision, especially these days. My situation was different in a lot of ways, but overlapped in others. I don't think there's a right or wrong decision in situations such as yours.
ptero 8y ago
Your startup seems to be doing pretty well (I would call it "profitable-able in a pinch") and you have a mini safety net with your wife's academic employment should provide health insurance indefinitely if you do take the jump. Also, with your experience you will also likely find job in industry if your startup folds, so you have fallback options, assuming you are OK with working for a corporation. That said, I would personally still take your "one more year" option as it gives you an extra year to get your startup to profit without officially resigning. This seems to be a very valuable freebie. Did I misread your web post about this option or are you reluctant to take this for other reasons? And finally, on your startup -- I would steer it to become profitable ASAP; for example if and when you are deciding between hiring a fifth employee (to grow faster) or getting profitable sooner I would take the second path. My 2c. And good luck whichever option you choose!
webmaven 8y ago
Presumably revenue is trending upward? If so, when do you expect your costs to be covered (such that the bank balance stops going down each month)? Are you spending anything on marketing?

ianai 8y ago

Do not leave that tenured position!! The market has been pumped up so hard that you should be making stability-reinforcing life choices. There’s also just nothing comparable to the benefits of being a tenured professor in the modern labor market short of winning the lottery. Find a way to make it work with fewer people or look for other ways to increase your revenue/demand.

williamstein 8y ago
> There’s also just nothing comparable to the benefits of being a tenured professor in the modern labor market short of winning the lottery. Having a few million dollars in the bank is comparable to being a tenured professor, at least in terms of guaranteed income. (Of course, I don't have millions of dollars in the bank.) Maybe that's what you meant by "winning the lottery", e.g., that phrase is sometimes used to refer to startup founders who sell their company.
- ianai 8y ago
  No I mean the modern labor market is horrible outside of the very hard to get positions at the FANGs. Have you researched what working and work culture are like? Read some of the Rachel by the bay blogs. You have a quality of life as a tenured professor that you simply won’t anywhere else. Especially as a “startup founder”. There’s a reason the valley takes them straight out of college graduation. Do Not Leave Your Professorship. You will regret it.
  - war1025 8y ago
    This seems like a very warped view of the world. The US economy is doing pretty well. The main worry people have is that it is doing too well and will lead to a crash at some point. Unemployment is basically non-existent in many parts of the country. Wages are finally starting to go up, after being stagnant since 2008. Putting up with poor working conditions is mostly poor decision making, especially in tech.
    - ianai 8y ago
      Inverted yield curve Decreasing job creation numbers Looming Brexit Recent Fed decisions to raise rates and more recently leave them unchanged. Investment choices, “beta”, should reflect a heightened risk aversion for people later in their careers. That’s just standard financial planning. I could even make a case for stagnant wages suddenly increasing indicating irregularities necessitating caution in financial and career decisions.

treis 8y ago

>The company is not profitable, but it is "ramen profitable" according to http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html. Without getting into details, the bank balance goes down a little each month since we pay hosting and for four fulltime employees (we have about 2 years of runway). However, we're close to profitable. Are you drawing a salary out of this?

williamstein 8y ago
> Are you drawing a salary out of this? Yes, though it is currently significantly less than UW paid me.

xrd 8y ago

I'm a proud UW CS graduate so this story is thrilling. It was mentioned at times in your article that you used your network to seek advice on the next steps for the business. Have you used the UW network to seek business advice from people not in academia and not in the math field? If you are supporting four people, not all of whom are developers, that's an amazing place to be, imho. If you are supporting four developers, it's even more admirable AND probably time to involve someone who can think exclusively about how to grow the business and does not think about engineering tasks. There is a huge network of former UW people involved in the software industry in Seattle who would help if you are at that moment to consider it. Maybe you've already done this, your article makes it sound like you have been very thorough in investigating how to take this to the next level, but it wasn't mentioned explicitly. I know some people like this, reach out to me if you want connections to them. Here's to your future success!

o2iur98nfosd 8y ago

As a former tenured professor who recently left their position, I wish you the best of luck. It's a difficult decision, especially these days. My situation was different in a lot of ways, but overlapped in others. I don't think there's a right or wrong decision in situations such as yours.

ptero 8y ago

Your startup seems to be doing pretty well (I would call it "profitable-able in a pinch") and you have a mini safety net with your wife's academic employment should provide health insurance indefinitely if you do take the jump. Also, with your experience you will also likely find job in industry if your startup folds, so you have fallback options, assuming you are OK with working for a corporation. That said, I would personally still take your "one more year" option as it gives you an extra year to get your startup to profit without officially resigning. This seems to be a very valuable freebie. Did I misread your web post about this option or are you reluctant to take this for other reasons? And finally, on your startup -- I would steer it to become profitable ASAP; for example if and when you are deciding between hiring a fifth employee (to grow faster) or getting profitable sooner I would take the second path. My 2c. And good luck whichever option you choose!

webmaven 8y ago

Presumably revenue is trending upward? If so, when do you expect your costs to be covered (such that the bank balance stops going down each month)? Are you spending anything on marketing?