3 ms·

> Now that they've gotten the credit for refusing, they'll probably wait a year and do it anyway with some slick PR. You can link this comment then. This attit

> Now that they've gotten the credit for refusing, they'll probably wait a year and do it anyway with some slick PR. You can link this comment then. This attitude concerns me, a bit. You're mad at Microsoft (it appears) for something they haven't done, and for using "slick PR" that doesn't exist. What's the basis for the anger?

jgust 8y ago
History?
- naikrovek 8y ago
  Are you asking a question? Since Satya Nadella has become CEO of Microsoft, exactly what history is there that is dark enough to blacklist that company from any positive reaction? I AM asking.
  - ionised 8y ago
    Are you trolling? Windows 10 and its heavy use of dark patterns for excessive data collection is reason enough for me to loathe the company. Plus those decades of ruthless antitrust/monopoly abuse by MS under Bill Gates has left its mark on the culture. They are going to need to behave quite spectacularly for at least 20 more years before I even consider viewing them as a customer friendly company with a social conscience.
    - naikrovek 8y ago
      Are YOU trolling? I'm not, and I suspect that you are. Dark patterns in Windows 10 were used to get people to upgrade, and the exec behind those decisions was let go. What exactly constitutes "excessive data collection" to you? If you are saying "telemetry" then turn off all of your computers and devices forever, because they ALL do it. Microsoft is simply more open about actually doing it than most places. Bill Gates has donated more money to charity than anyone in history, and through that charity work has certainly saved more lives than you or me. Just admit that you like disliking Microsoft and that your opinion isn't based on anything real.
      - ionised 8y ago
        > Dark patterns in Windows 10 were used to get people to upgrade, and the exec behind those decisions was let go. Don't care. They are still using dark patterns all over Windows 10 to convince people to disable various privacy settings. It also doesn't matter that it was to get people to upgrade. The ends don't justify the means. Shitty behaviour == shitty company. > What exactly constitutes "excessive data collection" to you? If you are saying "telemetry" then turn off all of your computers and devices forever, because they ALL do it. Microsoft is simply more open about actually doing it than most places. Argumentum ad populum. "Other people do it too!" is not valid defence of this behaviour. I'm not going to argue with logical fallacies. The fact that the EU just passed GDPR and the fact that people all over the world are waking up to the ramifications of this dragnet data collections is a sign of things to come: surveillance capitalism has peaked and people, when they actually understand what is happening, do not like this behaviour. Keep using those dark patterns to deceive your users though. > Bill Gates has donated more money to charity than anyone in history, and through that charity work has certainly saved more lives than you or me. Ah yes, the Bill and Melinda Gate's foundation. The colossal tax write-off scheme that allows Bill Gate's to avoid having his wealth taxed before he dies so he can make his children 'directors' of the foundation with security for life so he can get around that pesky vow he made about not giving his children all his money when he croaks. The fact that he puts some money towards charity at the end of his utterly selfish life to try to leave a legacy that is anything but negative is transparent and shallow. Nothing will ever make up for what he has done in the past, the business he bullied into submission and the lives ruined by his antitrust practices and hostile attitude to open source. So a lot of people are being saved now due to contributions made by the Gate's foundation. That's great, it really is. I still donate a larger proportion of my wealth to charity than he does. He's barely even trying. Bill Gate's is part of modern societies problem. Billionaires that can't see it's their and their ilk's own actions that bring so much of the misery they are seeing. The little good is doing will never make up for what he is and what he has done. Yet we were talking about Windows 10, and you started whining on about Bill Gates. I'm guessing you're a Microsoft employee.
sneak 8y ago
Battleships run Windows. Drone strike missions are planned in PowerPoint. Microsoft isn’t exactly working from a blank slate of reputation here.
- samfriedman 8y ago
  Effectively all military missions are planned in PowerPoint, and I don't think Microsoft shaped that product with battlefield efficiency in mind.
  - russh 8y ago
    >> I don't think Microsoft shaped that product with battlefield efficiency in mind. Exactly why it's useful.
  - ragona 8y ago
    > Effectively all military missions are planned in PowerPoint Wait... really??
    - int_19h 8y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
    - remarkEon 8y ago
      Yeah can confirm - OPORD briefs are given in powerpoint with neat graphics and an accompanying paper narrative. Make sure you have the right font and color scheme, though.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
      Why are you surprised?
      - ragona 8y ago
        I just figured there would be some fancy battle tool!
Y_Y 8y ago
What a strange comment. I was only making a prediction about what I think they will do. I'm not particularly cross about it, I think this kind of behaviour is inevitable. I hope I have assuaged your concerns.
ionised 8y ago
Decades of shady practices and cutthroat anti-competitive business decisions. Microsoft is going to have to behave itself for an equal or greater period of time before I risk thinking it has changed for the better.

jgust 8y ago

History?

naikrovek 8y ago
Are you asking a question? Since Satya Nadella has become CEO of Microsoft, exactly what history is there that is dark enough to blacklist that company from any positive reaction? I AM asking.
- ionised 8y ago
  Are you trolling? Windows 10 and its heavy use of dark patterns for excessive data collection is reason enough for me to loathe the company. Plus those decades of ruthless antitrust/monopoly abuse by MS under Bill Gates has left its mark on the culture. They are going to need to behave quite spectacularly for at least 20 more years before I even consider viewing them as a customer friendly company with a social conscience.
  - naikrovek 8y ago
    Are YOU trolling? I'm not, and I suspect that you are. Dark patterns in Windows 10 were used to get people to upgrade, and the exec behind those decisions was let go. What exactly constitutes "excessive data collection" to you? If you are saying "telemetry" then turn off all of your computers and devices forever, because they ALL do it. Microsoft is simply more open about actually doing it than most places. Bill Gates has donated more money to charity than anyone in history, and through that charity work has certainly saved more lives than you or me. Just admit that you like disliking Microsoft and that your opinion isn't based on anything real.
    - ionised 8y ago
      > Dark patterns in Windows 10 were used to get people to upgrade, and the exec behind those decisions was let go. Don't care. They are still using dark patterns all over Windows 10 to convince people to disable various privacy settings. It also doesn't matter that it was to get people to upgrade. The ends don't justify the means. Shitty behaviour == shitty company. > What exactly constitutes "excessive data collection" to you? If you are saying "telemetry" then turn off all of your computers and devices forever, because they ALL do it. Microsoft is simply more open about actually doing it than most places. Argumentum ad populum. "Other people do it too!" is not valid defence of this behaviour. I'm not going to argue with logical fallacies. The fact that the EU just passed GDPR and the fact that people all over the world are waking up to the ramifications of this dragnet data collections is a sign of things to come: surveillance capitalism has peaked and people, when they actually understand what is happening, do not like this behaviour. Keep using those dark patterns to deceive your users though. > Bill Gates has donated more money to charity than anyone in history, and through that charity work has certainly saved more lives than you or me. Ah yes, the Bill and Melinda Gate's foundation. The colossal tax write-off scheme that allows Bill Gate's to avoid having his wealth taxed before he dies so he can make his children 'directors' of the foundation with security for life so he can get around that pesky vow he made about not giving his children all his money when he croaks. The fact that he puts some money towards charity at the end of his utterly selfish life to try to leave a legacy that is anything but negative is transparent and shallow. Nothing will ever make up for what he has done in the past, the business he bullied into submission and the lives ruined by his antitrust practices and hostile attitude to open source. So a lot of people are being saved now due to contributions made by the Gate's foundation. That's great, it really is. I still donate a larger proportion of my wealth to charity than he does. He's barely even trying. Bill Gate's is part of modern societies problem. Billionaires that can't see it's their and their ilk's own actions that bring so much of the misery they are seeing. The little good is doing will never make up for what he is and what he has done. Yet we were talking about Windows 10, and you started whining on about Bill Gates. I'm guessing you're a Microsoft employee.

sneak 8y ago

Battleships run Windows. Drone strike missions are planned in PowerPoint. Microsoft isn’t exactly working from a blank slate of reputation here.

samfriedman 8y ago
Effectively all military missions are planned in PowerPoint, and I don't think Microsoft shaped that product with battlefield efficiency in mind.
- russh 8y ago
  >> I don't think Microsoft shaped that product with battlefield efficiency in mind. Exactly why it's useful.
- ragona 8y ago
  > Effectively all military missions are planned in PowerPoint Wait... really??
  - int_19h 8y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
  - remarkEon 8y ago
    Yeah can confirm - OPORD briefs are given in powerpoint with neat graphics and an accompanying paper narrative. Make sure you have the right font and color scheme, though.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    Why are you surprised?
    - ragona 8y ago
      I just figured there would be some fancy battle tool!

Y_Y 8y ago

What a strange comment. I was only making a prediction about what I think they will do. I'm not particularly cross about it, I think this kind of behaviour is inevitable. I hope I have assuaged your concerns.

ionised 8y ago

Decades of shady practices and cutthroat anti-competitive business decisions. Microsoft is going to have to behave itself for an equal or greater period of time before I risk thinking it has changed for the better.