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Strongly agreed. The "what if they wake me up to torture me" scenarios seem like wild catastrophizing to me - if someone has the political power and resources
by saulrh 8y ago
Strongly agreed.
The "what if they wake me up to torture me" scenarios seem like wild catastrophizing to me - if someone has the political power and resources to develop special brain-torture gear, rez me, and keep me alive so they can torture me, they have the political power and resources to kidnap me and torture me with knives and fire as long as they want. It'd probably even be easier for them to do it to my physical body, right here and right now.
It sounds like the real worry is "what if I wake up in a dystopian future". And, of course, once you look at that, the expected value calculation is trivial. Consider the set of futures which have sufficiently-developed research and economy to systematize the operation of and systematically execute on rezzing random frozen brains. Consider the set of futures which have that property but are also dystopian enough to rez brains for the sole purpose of torturing them. Recall that these things are in tension; the kinds of irrationalities that lead a civilization to do that kind of thing will impair them in other ways, sometimes significantly - enmity from less-extreme polities, toxic culture leading to structural inefficiency, etc. You have to reach really far to find that region of the configuration space of possible future worlds.
So look at the expected values. Yes, being tortured for a while would suck. But being alive again, and possibly even biologically immortal, has the expected value of an entire new life. And the probabilities say that being rezzed is far more likely in a good future than a bad future. Literally every stage of the expected-value calculation says that being rezzed can be expected to be a win.
- human20190310 8y agoGiven enough time, anything with a non-zero probability of happening will eventually happen, and when you're dealing with the prospect of immortality, "enough time" is a given. Even if the optimistic scenario is true for your first 100 "rezzes", the 101st civilization that takes over after the 100th collapses might not be so nice. EDITED TO ADD: Moreover "the kinds of irrationalities that lead a civilization to do that kind of thing" is confusing a value judgment with rationality. An extremely predatory civilization might maintain its edge through cruelty, the same way that cats seem to play with mice before killing them. That would be evil, but rational.
- vcavallo 8y agowhat about “everything is fine forever” as a possible thing with a non-zero probability of happening (which then does happen)? how does that confound the calculus?
- taneq 8y agoIt has to be fine every single day to be fine forever. It only has to be not fine once to not be fine forever. These dice get rolled every day.
- saalweachter 8y agoThis is basically the argument that turned Elan Morin Tedronai to the dark side.
- Wowfunhappy 8y agoSo does that one bad experience cancel out all the good ones?
- human20190310 8y agoI don't know. I'm just disturbed by the power imbalance between the people doing the reviving and the beings that are revived. I hope the optimistic scenarios are true.
- fwip 8y agoAnd if the dystopia sucks, die again.