4 ms·

while the Colossus looks really interesting, I think the biggest impact was the video feed. I don't have the specs, but just by quick glancing of the video, tha

while the Colossus looks really interesting, I think the biggest impact was the video feed. I don't have the specs, but just by quick glancing of the video, that small stream of water probably didn't help at all in this particular case. You would have to be way closer for it to be effective, or use a different pattern of water if you're trying to achieve something else (e.g. ventilation or cooling down). In any case, really interesting tech. Source: firefighter for over 8 years, attend hundreds of structural fires, tens of 5+ alarms, few of them in historical buildings.

treis 7y ago
I've noticed that people have been giving a lot of credit to the fire fighters. It's clear they tried their best and risked their lives to remove the artifacts that they could. But it's also clear that everything that could burn did burn: https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 The entire roof is in ashes and there doesn't appear to be anything combustible left.
- matt4077 7y ago
  The bell towers did start burning, and their structure is wood to a large degree. Just the bells dropping could have destroyed all horizontal structures and threatened the towers’ stability. They also literally grabbed and ran out with a lot of rather delicate cultural artifacts.
- melkiaur 7y ago
  You missed the part about the trusses in the bell tower that didn't burn. If they burnt and the bells fell (13 tons for the biggest one!), then the whole building would have collapsed. They had guys in the tower, protecting that.
- organsnyder 7y ago
  Given the hand they were dealt[1], I think they did a remarkable job. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-da...
- organsnyder 7y ago
  The organ casework looks quite combustible to me: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214621195466674&set=pcb.10214621197506725&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214621195466674&se...
- JshWright 7y ago
  Here are some of my thoughts (from another discussion) on the efforts of the firefighters: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19673885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19673885
szczys 7y ago
Yeah, it makes sense that being able to see inside the structure would be a huge help in planning how to take on the fire. I was wondering about the robot's water stream being used to keep things currently not burning from starting on fire. Do you think this would be used to hose down relics they were trying to protect from the rest of the blaze or is that not even considered when trying to get it under control?
- funkaster 7y ago
  that could be something, but you would have to weigh in the damage from water vs fire. watering relics could potentially damage and destroy relics as much as fire. Same with walls: you can water them to prevent them from catching fire, but that will eventually deteriorate the structural integrity, so you need to be careful.
melling 7y ago
How many would we need to be more effective? Perhaps a small swarm could be used? The yearly forest fires in California seem to be difficult to control. A robotic army of firefighters might help?
- lm28469 7y ago
  Forest fires are part of the natural life of forests, trying to stop them is counter productive, the more you delay them the more fuel there is to burn (accumulation of fuel: dead plants, dead trees, &c.) Not everything has to be fixed by technology and controlled by humans. https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/how-forest-fires-play-an-essential-role-in-natural-cycles-of-plants-wildlife/70004340 https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/how-forest-fires...
  - melling 7y ago
    Then why do we send in firefighters? I didn't say we should stop the forest fires, I said we want to control them. Almost 100 people died in California last year and there was $3.5 billion in damage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires
    - lm28469 7y ago
      Yes we do try to control them, but that's a last resort, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EodxubsO8EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EodxubsO8EI Same problem with Texas and floods, Florida and hurricanes, &c. building in risk zones is inherently dangerous. The people who died knew the risks.
  - username223 7y ago
    Unfortunately, it's not that simple. For example, decades of fire suppression created unnatural forests, with more deadfall and closer, smaller trees, that burn more intensely than natural ones. Thanks to global warming, bark beetles have killed vast swathes of forest in the western United States. And people live near those forests, and expect the fire department to protect their houses. It can't all be fixed and controlled, but "letting nature take its course" would have disastrous consequences at this point.
melkiaur 7y ago
Apparently, a significant difference between American and French firefighters is that the latter prefer to fight the fire from the inside (e.g.: avoid the heat and steam to accumulate inside). Apart from the video aspect, wouldn't the Colossus' water stream help them achieve that: creating a path for them to intervene and potentially escape ?
- JshWright 7y ago
  Where have you seen that difference apparent? That's not the case, in my experience.
- blancheneige 7y ago
  I was just reading in Le Monde yesterday that this approach is used on historical buildings as working inward would trap the fire and essentially create a localized furnace that would damage the artifacts inside.
  - athenot 7y ago
    Also, the furnace could compromise the stone structure. So the focus was to keep the wall from getting too hot, first from the inside.
- rat9988 7y ago
  The way it was explained in Lemonde, it's that french firefihters don't always do that. They did it to preserve the interior, but that might not be their every day strategy.
JshWright 7y ago
It looks like they were mostly using it to dump water on the pile of debris from the collapsed roof. Seems like a reasonable use case (you wouldn't want crews operating under the rest of the roof that hadn't collapsed).
porker 7y ago
The Colossus is "Fireproof" according to the marketing website [1]. It appears to contain Lithium batteries, so how hot do you think it can get before it stops working? 1. https://www.shark-robotics.com/en/robot/colossus/ https://www.shark-robotics.com/en/robot/colossus/
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  I would be extremely surprised if it didn't cool itself with the water hookup
- gpm 7y ago
  If they're using the water that's flowing through that hose to cool it, it could be fine with a very high external temperature. I think I would be more concerned about the cameras than the batteries, they're harder to cool.

treis 7y ago

I've noticed that people have been giving a lot of credit to the fire fighters. It's clear they tried their best and risked their lives to remove the artifacts that they could. But it's also clear that everything that could burn did burn: https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 The entire roof is in ashes and there doesn't appear to be anything combustible left.

matt4077 7y ago
The bell towers did start burning, and their structure is wood to a large degree. Just the bells dropping could have destroyed all horizontal structures and threatened the towers’ stability. They also literally grabbed and ran out with a lot of rather delicate cultural artifacts.
melkiaur 7y ago
You missed the part about the trusses in the bell tower that didn't burn. If they burnt and the bells fell (13 tons for the biggest one!), then the whole building would have collapsed. They had guys in the tower, protecting that.
organsnyder 7y ago
Given the hand they were dealt[1], I think they did a remarkable job. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-da...
organsnyder 7y ago
The organ casework looks quite combustible to me: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214621195466674&set=pcb.10214621197506725&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214621195466674&se...
JshWright 7y ago
Here are some of my thoughts (from another discussion) on the efforts of the firefighters: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19673885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19673885

szczys 7y ago

Yeah, it makes sense that being able to see inside the structure would be a huge help in planning how to take on the fire. I was wondering about the robot's water stream being used to keep things currently not burning from starting on fire. Do you think this would be used to hose down relics they were trying to protect from the rest of the blaze or is that not even considered when trying to get it under control?

funkaster 7y ago
that could be something, but you would have to weigh in the damage from water vs fire. watering relics could potentially damage and destroy relics as much as fire. Same with walls: you can water them to prevent them from catching fire, but that will eventually deteriorate the structural integrity, so you need to be careful.

melling 7y ago

How many would we need to be more effective? Perhaps a small swarm could be used? The yearly forest fires in California seem to be difficult to control. A robotic army of firefighters might help?

lm28469 7y ago
Forest fires are part of the natural life of forests, trying to stop them is counter productive, the more you delay them the more fuel there is to burn (accumulation of fuel: dead plants, dead trees, &c.) Not everything has to be fixed by technology and controlled by humans. https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/how-forest-fires-play-an-essential-role-in-natural-cycles-of-plants-wildlife/70004340 https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/how-forest-fires...
- melling 7y ago
  Then why do we send in firefighters? I didn't say we should stop the forest fires, I said we want to control them. Almost 100 people died in California last year and there was $3.5 billion in damage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires
  - lm28469 7y ago
    Yes we do try to control them, but that's a last resort, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EodxubsO8EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EodxubsO8EI Same problem with Texas and floods, Florida and hurricanes, &c. building in risk zones is inherently dangerous. The people who died knew the risks.
- username223 7y ago
  Unfortunately, it's not that simple. For example, decades of fire suppression created unnatural forests, with more deadfall and closer, smaller trees, that burn more intensely than natural ones. Thanks to global warming, bark beetles have killed vast swathes of forest in the western United States. And people live near those forests, and expect the fire department to protect their houses. It can't all be fixed and controlled, but "letting nature take its course" would have disastrous consequences at this point.

melkiaur 7y ago

Apparently, a significant difference between American and French firefighters is that the latter prefer to fight the fire from the inside (e.g.: avoid the heat and steam to accumulate inside). Apart from the video aspect, wouldn't the Colossus' water stream help them achieve that: creating a path for them to intervene and potentially escape ?

JshWright 7y ago
Where have you seen that difference apparent? That's not the case, in my experience.
blancheneige 7y ago
I was just reading in Le Monde yesterday that this approach is used on historical buildings as working inward would trap the fire and essentially create a localized furnace that would damage the artifacts inside.
- athenot 7y ago
  Also, the furnace could compromise the stone structure. So the focus was to keep the wall from getting too hot, first from the inside.
rat9988 7y ago
The way it was explained in Lemonde, it's that french firefihters don't always do that. They did it to preserve the interior, but that might not be their every day strategy.

JshWright 7y ago

It looks like they were mostly using it to dump water on the pile of debris from the collapsed roof. Seems like a reasonable use case (you wouldn't want crews operating under the rest of the roof that hadn't collapsed).

porker 7y ago

The Colossus is "Fireproof" according to the marketing website [1]. It appears to contain Lithium batteries, so how hot do you think it can get before it stops working? 1. https://www.shark-robotics.com/en/robot/colossus/ https://www.shark-robotics.com/en/robot/colossus/

NikolaeVarius 7y ago
I would be extremely surprised if it didn't cool itself with the water hookup
gpm 7y ago
If they're using the water that's flowing through that hose to cool it, it could be fine with a very high external temperature. I think I would be more concerned about the cameras than the batteries, they're harder to cool.