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The Drones and Robots That Helped Save Notre Dame

134 points by wardn 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stcredzero 7y ago
My awareness comes from a tragic event, but I still must say that the Colossus is pretty cool. I wonder if the birdlike Boston Dynamics robot could be adapted for indoor firefighting in confined spaces. (Perhaps with a flippable/rotatable 4 wheeled gimbal like the Dean Kamen iBot has, which would enable stair climbing.) https://gizmodo.com/boston-dynamics-new-robot-is-a-giant-segway-bird-that-l-1833666944 https://gizmodo.com/boston-dynamics-new-robot-is-a-giant-seg...
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  I'm not sure the Boston bird can take any significant amount of heat or water, to say nothing of its ability to navigate a floor strewn with (burning) debris.
  - stcredzero 7y ago
    I'm not sure the Boston bird can take any significant amount of heat or water If you take an architecture developed for warehouse running, you'd naturally have to adapt it for fire fighting. If you're not assuming that this sort of re-engineering needs to be done for a shirtsleeves R&D device being applied to the demanding context of fire fighting, then please think 1 or 2 more steps ahead when engineering. In short: I'm trying to talk about some specific modifications to an existing example and its effect on maneuvering, as a shorthand to discuss a general architecture, not all of the contextual specifics. I would be open to discussing how the contextual specifics would be applied, but to go directly to, "won't work -- specifics!..." is just throwing up roadblocks to be a pedant. to say nothing of its ability to navigate a floor strewn with (burning) debris Which is why I mentioned the bogey and extra wheels as in the iBot.
- gpm 7y ago
  Flying drones close to a fire seems like a counter productive idea, flight is achieved by pushing lots of air around, pushing lots of air around increases the amount of oxygen available to the fire. Edit: Oops - not flying - so this comment makes no sense. I thought you meant some of the bird-like drones we've seen.
  - Notorious_BLT 7y ago
    The bird-like Boston Dynamics bots aren't flying drones, they are more like ostriches in shape, and they balance on two wheels on legs with a neck-like arm for manipulating things
    - gpm 7y ago
      You're right... oops. Sorry.
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    That logic seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Following that logic, the best way to fight a fire is to get a lot of people in the building to breathe in all the oxygen and turn it into carbon dioxide ;-)
    - gpm 7y ago
      Humans aren't very good O2->CO2 convertors, and people object to you killing them in the process of fighting fires, so it's not "the best way" but I suppose it is a "way". A more extreme version, using explosives to put out oil well fires, is common. But we're really discussing the inverse prospect, adding oxygen to make a fire hotter. This is even more common. From blowing on camp fires, to bellows in a forge, to back yard foundries built with a hair dryer acting as a fan.
funkaster 7y ago
while the Colossus looks really interesting, I think the biggest impact was the video feed. I don't have the specs, but just by quick glancing of the video, that small stream of water probably didn't help at all in this particular case. You would have to be way closer for it to be effective, or use a different pattern of water if you're trying to achieve something else (e.g. ventilation or cooling down). In any case, really interesting tech. Source: firefighter for over 8 years, attend hundreds of structural fires, tens of 5+ alarms, few of them in historical buildings.
- treis 7y ago
  I've noticed that people have been giving a lot of credit to the fire fighters. It's clear they tried their best and risked their lives to remove the artifacts that they could. But it's also clear that everything that could burn did burn: https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 The entire roof is in ashes and there doesn't appear to be anything combustible left.
  - matt4077 7y ago
    The bell towers did start burning, and their structure is wood to a large degree. Just the bells dropping could have destroyed all horizontal structures and threatened the towers’ stability. They also literally grabbed and ran out with a lot of rather delicate cultural artifacts.
  - melkiaur 7y ago
    You missed the part about the trusses in the bell tower that didn't burn. If they burnt and the bells fell (13 tons for the biggest one!), then the whole building would have collapsed. They had guys in the tower, protecting that.
  - organsnyder 7y ago
    Given the hand they were dealt[1], I think they did a remarkable job. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-da...
cesarb 7y ago
> They instead borrowed two commercially available models which were in service with the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Culture. [...] But DJI actually has a system in place where operators can request these limitations be lifted temporarily, which allowed the manufacturer to work quickly with the French authorities Given that both drones were owned by branches of the French government, it's possible that they already had their geofencing permanently disabled, at least within France.
mitfahrener 7y ago
Chinese technology. Designed and built in China.
- melling 7y ago
  It’s great that China has achieved global competitiveness in innovation. Maglevs, electric vehicles, space exploration, AI, etc will improve more rapidly with more competition. Now we need for other “offline“ countries to join to increase global innovation.
- Luc 7y ago
  The drones you mean? The Colossus by Shark Robotics is designed and made in France. Impressive thing. 8h autonomy, can go up stairs.
- zyngaro 7y ago
  There is such a thing as <name_of_country> technology. Technology is technology and drones are certainly not a 0 to 1 Chinese technology. Great Chinese product nonetheless.
- matt4077 7y ago
  Great. Now they should stop destroying their local cultural artifacts (https://twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1118086632450740226 https://twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1118086632450740226), and imprisoning people in concentration camps.
  - sctb 7y ago
    > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ct0 7y ago
  Yes, DJI is coming out of China

134 points by wardn 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

My awareness comes from a tragic event, but I still must say that the Colossus is pretty cool. I wonder if the birdlike Boston Dynamics robot could be adapted for indoor firefighting in confined spaces. (Perhaps with a flippable/rotatable 4 wheeled gimbal like the Dean Kamen iBot has, which would enable stair climbing.) https://gizmodo.com/boston-dynamics-new-robot-is-a-giant-segway-bird-that-l-1833666944 https://gizmodo.com/boston-dynamics-new-robot-is-a-giant-seg...

SiempreViernes 7y ago
I'm not sure the Boston bird can take any significant amount of heat or water, to say nothing of its ability to navigate a floor strewn with (burning) debris.
- stcredzero 7y ago
  I'm not sure the Boston bird can take any significant amount of heat or water If you take an architecture developed for warehouse running, you'd naturally have to adapt it for fire fighting. If you're not assuming that this sort of re-engineering needs to be done for a shirtsleeves R&D device being applied to the demanding context of fire fighting, then please think 1 or 2 more steps ahead when engineering. In short: I'm trying to talk about some specific modifications to an existing example and its effect on maneuvering, as a shorthand to discuss a general architecture, not all of the contextual specifics. I would be open to discussing how the contextual specifics would be applied, but to go directly to, "won't work -- specifics!..." is just throwing up roadblocks to be a pedant. to say nothing of its ability to navigate a floor strewn with (burning) debris Which is why I mentioned the bogey and extra wheels as in the iBot.
gpm 7y ago
Flying drones close to a fire seems like a counter productive idea, flight is achieved by pushing lots of air around, pushing lots of air around increases the amount of oxygen available to the fire. Edit: Oops - not flying - so this comment makes no sense. I thought you meant some of the bird-like drones we've seen.
- Notorious_BLT 7y ago
  The bird-like Boston Dynamics bots aren't flying drones, they are more like ostriches in shape, and they balance on two wheels on legs with a neck-like arm for manipulating things
  - gpm 7y ago
    You're right... oops. Sorry.
- loco5niner 7y ago
  That logic seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Following that logic, the best way to fight a fire is to get a lot of people in the building to breathe in all the oxygen and turn it into carbon dioxide ;-)
  - gpm 7y ago
    Humans aren't very good O2->CO2 convertors, and people object to you killing them in the process of fighting fires, so it's not "the best way" but I suppose it is a "way". A more extreme version, using explosives to put out oil well fires, is common. But we're really discussing the inverse prospect, adding oxygen to make a fire hotter. This is even more common. From blowing on camp fires, to bellows in a forge, to back yard foundries built with a hair dryer acting as a fan.

funkaster 7y ago

while the Colossus looks really interesting, I think the biggest impact was the video feed. I don't have the specs, but just by quick glancing of the video, that small stream of water probably didn't help at all in this particular case. You would have to be way closer for it to be effective, or use a different pattern of water if you're trying to achieve something else (e.g. ventilation or cooling down). In any case, really interesting tech. Source: firefighter for over 8 years, attend hundreds of structural fires, tens of 5+ alarms, few of them in historical buildings.

treis 7y ago
I've noticed that people have been giving a lot of credit to the fire fighters. It's clear they tried their best and risked their lives to remove the artifacts that they could. But it's also clear that everything that could burn did burn: https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 https://images.app.goo.gl/PsAzFTwaz9rRC4Qp6 The entire roof is in ashes and there doesn't appear to be anything combustible left.
- matt4077 7y ago
  The bell towers did start burning, and their structure is wood to a large degree. Just the bells dropping could have destroyed all horizontal structures and threatened the towers’ stability. They also literally grabbed and ran out with a lot of rather delicate cultural artifacts.
- melkiaur 7y ago
  You missed the part about the trusses in the bell tower that didn't burn. If they burnt and the bells fell (13 tons for the biggest one!), then the whole building would have collapsed. They had guys in the tower, protecting that.
- organsnyder 7y ago
  Given the hand they were dealt[1], I think they did a remarkable job. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-da...

cesarb 7y ago

> They instead borrowed two commercially available models which were in service with the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Culture. [...] But DJI actually has a system in place where operators can request these limitations be lifted temporarily, which allowed the manufacturer to work quickly with the French authorities Given that both drones were owned by branches of the French government, it's possible that they already had their geofencing permanently disabled, at least within France.

mitfahrener 7y ago

Chinese technology. Designed and built in China.

melling 7y ago
It’s great that China has achieved global competitiveness in innovation. Maglevs, electric vehicles, space exploration, AI, etc will improve more rapidly with more competition. Now we need for other “offline“ countries to join to increase global innovation.
Luc 7y ago
The drones you mean? The Colossus by Shark Robotics is designed and made in France. Impressive thing. 8h autonomy, can go up stairs.
zyngaro 7y ago
There is such a thing as <name_of_country> technology. Technology is technology and drones are certainly not a 0 to 1 Chinese technology. Great Chinese product nonetheless.
matt4077 7y ago
Great. Now they should stop destroying their local cultural artifacts (https://twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1118086632450740226 https://twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1118086632450740226), and imprisoning people in concentration camps.
- sctb 7y ago
  > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
ct0 7y ago
Yes, DJI is coming out of China