4 ms·

The US recently did something similar with Ukraine.

Aloha 8y ago
Ukraine has 200+ years of reasons to want to look west instead of east - this same truth exists for all of the former baltic republics.
- linuxftw 8y ago
  Cool talking point. Unfortunately, doesn't match reality. The democratically elected government was deposed via military coup. When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it.
  - sk0g 8y ago
    Out of curiosity, considering your teeming confidence on this, have you spoken to many Ukrainians? I lived in a country (practically) bordering them, and their sentiment regarding Russia mirrorred ours. Bit too much, we have both gotten in conflict with them, over the last decade or so...
    - lostconfused 8y ago
      You'd need to specify an age group since it shouldn't be too hard to find supoort for Russia from the older generation that grew up under Soviet Union and is now feeling nostalgic for their past.
      - sk0g 8y ago
        Oh I know, there's this sentiment of "Yeah it was a bit dull and restrictive, but we could afford to feed our kids properly." It's... a complex issue.
  - scottie_m 8y ago
    When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it. Ah yes, that must be why Iran is a Democratic paradise free from the IRGC and ayatollahs. Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, China, Russia, Myanmar, are all so relentlessly pro-US for the same reason I’d assume. And of course it’s not as though Russia has a history of interfering in their sphere, or sent their military to annex a part of Ukraine.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - archgoon 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_re... > However, Members of Parliament voted on 22 February to remove the president and set an election for 25 May to select his replacement. That's not a coup. > Petro Poroshenko, running on a pro-European Union platform, won with over fifty percent of the vote, therefore not requiring a run-off election. That is also not a coup.
    - linuxftw 8y ago
      This is entirely revisionist history propaganda. The opposition forces seized control of the government through violent means. You can throw out any election that took place after that as complete propaganda. Crimea already declared independence from the US-backed military coup established government. I suspect eastern portion of Ukraine also didn't get much of a voice in those 'elections' Try reading some non-pro-western sources for the other side of the story.
      - archgoon 8y ago
        Generally speaking, I find it effective, when I disagree with someone's sources describing an event, to explicitly provide my own. This ensures that the person I'm speaking with knows what sources I find credible, and knows the version of events that I'm willing to defend as accurate. Also, if you feel that the Wikipedia page is misrepresenting the situation, I encourage you to engage on the talk page, and update the event section to provide an alternative view point. Yes, you'll get some pushback, but you can then cite the same published sources that you find to be more reliable, making it easier for people to follow the different threads. The events in the Ukraine during 2014 are important, and I would like to have Wikipedia be accurate on it.
        linuxftw 8y ago
        I don't think Wikipedia is a good source for anything that goes against an established narrative, no matter the subject. I don't have any interest in making sure Wikipedia is up to date when there are state actors publishing their view of events on Wikipedia.
sctb 8y ago
> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ukraine has 200+ years of reasons to want to look west instead of east - this same truth exists for all of the former baltic republics.

linuxftw 8y ago
Cool talking point. Unfortunately, doesn't match reality. The democratically elected government was deposed via military coup. When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it.
- sk0g 8y ago
  Out of curiosity, considering your teeming confidence on this, have you spoken to many Ukrainians? I lived in a country (practically) bordering them, and their sentiment regarding Russia mirrorred ours. Bit too much, we have both gotten in conflict with them, over the last decade or so...
  - lostconfused 8y ago
    You'd need to specify an age group since it shouldn't be too hard to find supoort for Russia from the older generation that grew up under Soviet Union and is now feeling nostalgic for their past.
    - sk0g 8y ago
      Oh I know, there's this sentiment of "Yeah it was a bit dull and restrictive, but we could afford to feed our kids properly." It's... a complex issue.
- scottie_m 8y ago
  When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it. Ah yes, that must be why Iran is a Democratic paradise free from the IRGC and ayatollahs. Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, China, Russia, Myanmar, are all so relentlessly pro-US for the same reason I’d assume. And of course it’s not as though Russia has a history of interfering in their sphere, or sent their military to annex a part of Ukraine.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- archgoon 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_re... > However, Members of Parliament voted on 22 February to remove the president and set an election for 25 May to select his replacement. That's not a coup. > Petro Poroshenko, running on a pro-European Union platform, won with over fifty percent of the vote, therefore not requiring a run-off election. That is also not a coup.
  - linuxftw 8y ago
    This is entirely revisionist history propaganda. The opposition forces seized control of the government through violent means. You can throw out any election that took place after that as complete propaganda. Crimea already declared independence from the US-backed military coup established government. I suspect eastern portion of Ukraine also didn't get much of a voice in those 'elections' Try reading some non-pro-western sources for the other side of the story.
    - archgoon 8y ago
      Generally speaking, I find it effective, when I disagree with someone's sources describing an event, to explicitly provide my own. This ensures that the person I'm speaking with knows what sources I find credible, and knows the version of events that I'm willing to defend as accurate. Also, if you feel that the Wikipedia page is misrepresenting the situation, I encourage you to engage on the talk page, and update the event section to provide an alternative view point. Yes, you'll get some pushback, but you can then cite the same published sources that you find to be more reliable, making it easier for people to follow the different threads. The events in the Ukraine during 2014 are important, and I would like to have Wikipedia be accurate on it.
      - linuxftw 8y ago
        I don't think Wikipedia is a good source for anything that goes against an established narrative, no matter the subject. I don't have any interest in making sure Wikipedia is up to date when there are state actors publishing their view of events on Wikipedia.

sctb 8y ago

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html