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"3.4: Could the issue be that students are just trying harder?" ----- without making a value judgment about it, I think an underappreciated aspect of our cur

by pitt1980 7y ago

"3.4: Could the issue be that students are just trying harder?" ----- without making a value judgment about it, I think an underappreciated aspect of our current spot in history is that we've had an explosion of resources that ambitious, resourceful people can leverage. Increasingly these resources don't have gatekeepers around them, and there isn't anything keeping highschoolers from accessing them. -------- I suspect the kids actually in the running for Harvard similar places, have accomplished much more than those kids would have accomplished 20 years or so ago.

akhilcacharya 7y ago
40 years sure. But 20? Was Zuck and his ilk that much more accomplished than the Harvard admit today? I think the greater “problem” is that merit is impossible to define. The risk of not joining the elites at 18 should be lowered if anything else.
- pitt1980 7y ago
  other way, kids today have access to the resources that Zuck's generation built (I actually think youtube, twitter, wordpress, amazon, and even Hacker News are much for helpful for an ambitious kid than facebook is, but whatever) I definitely agree with the "The risk of not joining the elites at 18 should be lowered if anything else. " but I don't think that's the would we live in
  - akhilcacharya 7y ago
    Which is a shame! Certainly feels demotivating as a state school grad.
    - pitt1980 7y ago
      This isn't the right takeaway Schools like Harvard have become more and more adept at correlating themselves with success At the same time they cause it less and less Harvard is really a place for people who don't actually need Harvard to succeed You don't need Harvard either
paulpauper 7y ago
The media and pundits often push a narrative that society is 'dumbing-down,' regressing, or that standards are being lowered, and maybe to some degree they are depending on where one looks, but we also see evidence of increased competitiveness and higher standards. Cramming for AP courses and SATs have become the norm for an increasingly large number of high schoolers. High-stakes testing is also common for New York's elite public and private primary and secondary schools. A high school grad who gets high AP and SAT scores and a 4.0 GPA is demonstrably smarter and more competent than someone than from generations ago without such scores and credentials.
- pitt1980 7y ago
  To riff off Charles Murray's thesis a little, it could be 'Coming Apart' too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book) ------- I think youtube and twitter are sort of interesting tools in this regard. I see a lot of commentary about how they're tools of distraction, but I'm not sure that's quite right. I think the better way to think about it is they're going to send you down rabbit holes that will magnify whatever habits you already have. If you're into cat videos, youtube is going to send you down that rabbit hole, If you're into physics lectures, youtube is going to send you down that rabbit hole, youtube is magnifying the differences between what the people who are into cat videos and what the people who are into physics lectures know twitter works like this too
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Yeah, I'm not really sure where that narrative even comes from - I don't think we can argue that the country is being "dumbed down" while Stanford, etc don't have trouble filling their freshman class. Ironically, the people perhaps pushing the narrative are often themselves HYPSM grads and beneficiaries of elite status. Same with the folks who claim "the college you go to doesn't matter".

akhilcacharya 7y ago

40 years sure. But 20? Was Zuck and his ilk that much more accomplished than the Harvard admit today? I think the greater “problem” is that merit is impossible to define. The risk of not joining the elites at 18 should be lowered if anything else.

pitt1980 7y ago
other way, kids today have access to the resources that Zuck's generation built (I actually think youtube, twitter, wordpress, amazon, and even Hacker News are much for helpful for an ambitious kid than facebook is, but whatever) I definitely agree with the "The risk of not joining the elites at 18 should be lowered if anything else. " but I don't think that's the would we live in
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Which is a shame! Certainly feels demotivating as a state school grad.
  - pitt1980 7y ago
    This isn't the right takeaway Schools like Harvard have become more and more adept at correlating themselves with success At the same time they cause it less and less Harvard is really a place for people who don't actually need Harvard to succeed You don't need Harvard either

paulpauper 7y ago

The media and pundits often push a narrative that society is 'dumbing-down,' regressing, or that standards are being lowered, and maybe to some degree they are depending on where one looks, but we also see evidence of increased competitiveness and higher standards. Cramming for AP courses and SATs have become the norm for an increasingly large number of high schoolers. High-stakes testing is also common for New York's elite public and private primary and secondary schools. A high school grad who gets high AP and SAT scores and a 4.0 GPA is demonstrably smarter and more competent than someone than from generations ago without such scores and credentials.

pitt1980 7y ago
To riff off Charles Murray's thesis a little, it could be 'Coming Apart' too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book) ------- I think youtube and twitter are sort of interesting tools in this regard. I see a lot of commentary about how they're tools of distraction, but I'm not sure that's quite right. I think the better way to think about it is they're going to send you down rabbit holes that will magnify whatever habits you already have. If you're into cat videos, youtube is going to send you down that rabbit hole, If you're into physics lectures, youtube is going to send you down that rabbit hole, youtube is magnifying the differences between what the people who are into cat videos and what the people who are into physics lectures know twitter works like this too
akhilcacharya 7y ago
Yeah, I'm not really sure where that narrative even comes from - I don't think we can argue that the country is being "dumbed down" while Stanford, etc don't have trouble filling their freshman class. Ironically, the people perhaps pushing the narrative are often themselves HYPSM grads and beneficiaries of elite status. Same with the folks who claim "the college you go to doesn't matter".