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This is part of China's multi-pronged strategy for taking over Taiwan. One prong is coopting Taiwanese elites, in parts by allowing them to become very wealthy

This is part of China's multi-pronged strategy for taking over Taiwan. One prong is coopting Taiwanese elites, in parts by allowing them to become very wealthy through China, but only if working in the background for unification. There is no way Foxconn would have been allowed to operate large factories in China, if its founder and chairman (Terry Gou) was pro independence.

est31 8y ago
> coopting Taiwanese elites This is empire building 101. Romans offered barbarian leaders a luxurious lifestyle with floor heating and access to a wide variety of regional specialties from around the empire in exchange for loyalty to the city. Quite many took that offer, those who didn't were convinced with help of the military.
- linuxftw 8y ago
  The US recently did something similar with Ukraine.
  - Aloha 8y ago
    Ukraine has 200+ years of reasons to want to look west instead of east - this same truth exists for all of the former baltic republics.
    - linuxftw 8y ago
      Cool talking point. Unfortunately, doesn't match reality. The democratically elected government was deposed via military coup. When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it.
      - sk0g 8y ago
        Out of curiosity, considering your teeming confidence on this, have you spoken to many Ukrainians? I lived in a country (practically) bordering them, and their sentiment regarding Russia mirrorred ours. Bit too much, we have both gotten in conflict with them, over the last decade or so...
        lostconfused 8y ago
        You'd need to specify an age group since it shouldn't be too hard to find supoort for Russia from the older generation that grew up under Soviet Union and is now feeling nostalgic for their past.
        sk0g 8y ago
        Oh I know, there's this sentiment of "Yeah it was a bit dull and restrictive, but we could afford to feed our kids properly." It's... a complex issue.
      - scottie_m 8y ago
        When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it. Ah yes, that must be why Iran is a Democratic paradise free from the IRGC and ayatollahs. Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, China, Russia, Myanmar, are all so relentlessly pro-US for the same reason I’d assume. And of course it’s not as though Russia has a history of interfering in their sphere, or sent their military to annex a part of Ukraine.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - archgoon 8y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_re... > However, Members of Parliament voted on 22 February to remove the president and set an election for 25 May to select his replacement. That's not a coup. > Petro Poroshenko, running on a pro-European Union platform, won with over fifty percent of the vote, therefore not requiring a run-off election. That is also not a coup.
        linuxftw 8y ago
        This is entirely revisionist history propaganda. The opposition forces seized control of the government through violent means. You can throw out any election that took place after that as complete propaganda. Crimea already declared independence from the US-backed military coup established government. I suspect eastern portion of Ukraine also didn't get much of a voice in those 'elections' Try reading some non-pro-western sources for the other side of the story.
        archgoon 8y ago
        Generally speaking, I find it effective, when I disagree with someone's sources describing an event, to explicitly provide my own. This ensures that the person I'm speaking with knows what sources I find credible, and knows the version of events that I'm willing to defend as accurate. Also, if you feel that the Wikipedia page is misrepresenting the situation, I encourage you to engage on the talk page, and update the event section to provide an alternative view point. Yes, you'll get some pushback, but you can then cite the same published sources that you find to be more reliable, making it easier for people to follow the different threads. The events in the Ukraine during 2014 are important, and I would like to have Wikipedia be accurate on it.
        linuxftw 8y ago
        I don't think Wikipedia is a good source for anything that goes against an established narrative, no matter the subject. I don't have any interest in making sure Wikipedia is up to date when there are state actors publishing their view of events on Wikipedia.
  - sctb 8y ago
    > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
runn1ng 8y ago
Well, he is campaigning on KMT ticket. KMT is pro-unification. (Funny considering KMT history, but that's how things played out.)
- dis-sys 8y ago
  > KMT is pro-unification. No, KMT is not pro-unification. When KMT's ex-chairman Hung Hsiu-chu openly supported the unification during her presidential campaign in 2015, 91% of KMT delegates at the party congress voted for replacing her as the KMT presidential candidate. KMT's plan is always to keep the status quo and use "unification" as a bargaining chip to get more $ from the CCP.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    KMT's regular party goers and the leadership are not quite the same, as Hong Xiuzhu found out. KMT has a sizeable, but mute hardliner wing who have no joke ambitions of taking on CPC again
- NotPaidToPost 8y ago
  Of course the KMT is "pro-unification". That's a historical constant, nothing funny about it. I remember Ma Yingjiu (the previous KMT ROC President) asked about 'independence' in 2011. He replied that the Republic of China had been independent since it was founded in 1911. Very good reply that summarises the situation to those who do not know Chinese history.
  - showjackyang 8y ago
    Actually no, KMT was at war with CPC. By unification, KMT meant (notice the past tense here) taking out CPC and rule mainland themselves. This position has changed 180 degrees in recent decades. The unification now KMT is promoting is essentially just give up and let CPC take over. Notice KMT is a foreign political party that originates from mainland China. Taiwanese people never had a say in that (Taiwanese social elites were slaughtered by KMT) before DPP became a real political party that's born and raised in Taiwan. Ma Yingjiu's statement was to maintain KMT's legitimacy as a party in Taiwan, that is, through a country named ROC. However, for Taiwanese. Our country is called Taiwan. And that's how we recognise ourselves long before 1911.
bitxbitxbitcoin 8y ago
This is brilliantly targeted then since the Chinese officially abandoned Mazu during the Cultural Revolution. Not that Guo could run for China President, anyways.
NotPaidToPost 8y ago
Well, Taiwan is in China. What it is not is in the PRC. Do you mean the PRC's strategy to finish the job? Or do you not know about China? The reality is that the KMT will never agree to surrender to the Communist Party.
- mshockwave 8y ago
  > Taiwan is in China dude, NO IT'S NOT. and also please don't bring this sensitive political topic to a technical-based forum. It's like arguing Israel and Palestine, or who should own Kashmir
- flazzarino 8y ago
  There are a lot of people on the island that were there before the KMT arrived that don't consider it China or themselves Chinese.
  - NotPaidToPost 8y ago
    The vast, vast majority of them are ethnic Chinese. The thing to realise is that this is really a divide and conquer game by the West. The West has always recognised that Taiwan is a part of China. Not least of course when the recognised government of China was the ROC government. Now the West recognises the PRC as the government of China, but this means that trying to stroke an 'independentist' sentiment in Taiwan becomes a tactic to weaken them.
    - ThatIsNotTrue 8y ago
      America, for one, recognizes Taiwan as an independent country ("province") and has enough weight that they can do that. Other countries, especially those in Europe, are not big enough to be able to do so and still maintain a trade relationship with China, and default to the choice that makes economical sense.
- showjackyang 8y ago
  As a Taiwanese, I disagree completely. (1) Taiwan is not in China, geographically and politically . (2) KMT has already surrendered

est31 8y ago

> coopting Taiwanese elites This is empire building 101. Romans offered barbarian leaders a luxurious lifestyle with floor heating and access to a wide variety of regional specialties from around the empire in exchange for loyalty to the city. Quite many took that offer, those who didn't were convinced with help of the military.

linuxftw 8y ago
The US recently did something similar with Ukraine.
- Aloha 8y ago
  Ukraine has 200+ years of reasons to want to look west instead of east - this same truth exists for all of the former baltic republics.
  - linuxftw 8y ago
    Cool talking point. Unfortunately, doesn't match reality. The democratically elected government was deposed via military coup. When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it.
    - sk0g 8y ago
      Out of curiosity, considering your teeming confidence on this, have you spoken to many Ukrainians? I lived in a country (practically) bordering them, and their sentiment regarding Russia mirrorred ours. Bit too much, we have both gotten in conflict with them, over the last decade or so...
      - lostconfused 8y ago
        You'd need to specify an age group since it shouldn't be too hard to find supoort for Russia from the older generation that grew up under Soviet Union and is now feeling nostalgic for their past.
        sk0g 8y ago
        Oh I know, there's this sentiment of "Yeah it was a bit dull and restrictive, but we could afford to feed our kids properly." It's... a complex issue.
    - scottie_m 8y ago
      When the US wants regime change, it usually gets it. Ah yes, that must be why Iran is a Democratic paradise free from the IRGC and ayatollahs. Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, China, Russia, Myanmar, are all so relentlessly pro-US for the same reason I’d assume. And of course it’s not as though Russia has a history of interfering in their sphere, or sent their military to annex a part of Ukraine.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - archgoon 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Euromaidan_and_2014_re... > However, Members of Parliament voted on 22 February to remove the president and set an election for 25 May to select his replacement. That's not a coup. > Petro Poroshenko, running on a pro-European Union platform, won with over fifty percent of the vote, therefore not requiring a run-off election. That is also not a coup.
      - linuxftw 8y ago
        This is entirely revisionist history propaganda. The opposition forces seized control of the government through violent means. You can throw out any election that took place after that as complete propaganda. Crimea already declared independence from the US-backed military coup established government. I suspect eastern portion of Ukraine also didn't get much of a voice in those 'elections' Try reading some non-pro-western sources for the other side of the story.
        archgoon 8y ago
        Generally speaking, I find it effective, when I disagree with someone's sources describing an event, to explicitly provide my own. This ensures that the person I'm speaking with knows what sources I find credible, and knows the version of events that I'm willing to defend as accurate. Also, if you feel that the Wikipedia page is misrepresenting the situation, I encourage you to engage on the talk page, and update the event section to provide an alternative view point. Yes, you'll get some pushback, but you can then cite the same published sources that you find to be more reliable, making it easier for people to follow the different threads. The events in the Ukraine during 2014 are important, and I would like to have Wikipedia be accurate on it.
        linuxftw 8y ago
        I don't think Wikipedia is a good source for anything that goes against an established narrative, no matter the subject. I don't have any interest in making sure Wikipedia is up to date when there are state actors publishing their view of events on Wikipedia.
- sctb 8y ago
  > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

runn1ng 8y ago

Well, he is campaigning on KMT ticket. KMT is pro-unification. (Funny considering KMT history, but that's how things played out.)

dis-sys 8y ago
> KMT is pro-unification. No, KMT is not pro-unification. When KMT's ex-chairman Hung Hsiu-chu openly supported the unification during her presidential campaign in 2015, 91% of KMT delegates at the party congress voted for replacing her as the KMT presidential candidate. KMT's plan is always to keep the status quo and use "unification" as a bargaining chip to get more $ from the CCP.
- baybal2 8y ago
  KMT's regular party goers and the leadership are not quite the same, as Hong Xiuzhu found out. KMT has a sizeable, but mute hardliner wing who have no joke ambitions of taking on CPC again
NotPaidToPost 8y ago
Of course the KMT is "pro-unification". That's a historical constant, nothing funny about it. I remember Ma Yingjiu (the previous KMT ROC President) asked about 'independence' in 2011. He replied that the Republic of China had been independent since it was founded in 1911. Very good reply that summarises the situation to those who do not know Chinese history.
- showjackyang 8y ago
  Actually no, KMT was at war with CPC. By unification, KMT meant (notice the past tense here) taking out CPC and rule mainland themselves. This position has changed 180 degrees in recent decades. The unification now KMT is promoting is essentially just give up and let CPC take over. Notice KMT is a foreign political party that originates from mainland China. Taiwanese people never had a say in that (Taiwanese social elites were slaughtered by KMT) before DPP became a real political party that's born and raised in Taiwan. Ma Yingjiu's statement was to maintain KMT's legitimacy as a party in Taiwan, that is, through a country named ROC. However, for Taiwanese. Our country is called Taiwan. And that's how we recognise ourselves long before 1911.

bitxbitxbitcoin 8y ago

This is brilliantly targeted then since the Chinese officially abandoned Mazu during the Cultural Revolution. Not that Guo could run for China President, anyways.

NotPaidToPost 8y ago

Well, Taiwan is in China. What it is not is in the PRC. Do you mean the PRC's strategy to finish the job? Or do you not know about China? The reality is that the KMT will never agree to surrender to the Communist Party.

mshockwave 8y ago
> Taiwan is in China dude, NO IT'S NOT. and also please don't bring this sensitive political topic to a technical-based forum. It's like arguing Israel and Palestine, or who should own Kashmir
flazzarino 8y ago
There are a lot of people on the island that were there before the KMT arrived that don't consider it China or themselves Chinese.
- NotPaidToPost 8y ago
  The vast, vast majority of them are ethnic Chinese. The thing to realise is that this is really a divide and conquer game by the West. The West has always recognised that Taiwan is a part of China. Not least of course when the recognised government of China was the ROC government. Now the West recognises the PRC as the government of China, but this means that trying to stroke an 'independentist' sentiment in Taiwan becomes a tactic to weaken them.
  - ThatIsNotTrue 8y ago
    America, for one, recognizes Taiwan as an independent country ("province") and has enough weight that they can do that. Other countries, especially those in Europe, are not big enough to be able to do so and still maintain a trade relationship with China, and default to the choice that makes economical sense.
showjackyang 8y ago
As a Taiwanese, I disagree completely. (1) Taiwan is not in China, geographically and politically . (2) KMT has already surrendered