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>It was a far cry from winning medals for Twigg, and beyond that, she said the solitary nature of programming troubled her. I would like to know what HN thinks

• wolfgke 7y ago
  > Isn't programming more or less a group endeavor now? It is still more solitary than many other jobs. On the other hand, I hate that it becomes more and more a group endeavor - I would love if it stayed much more solitary as in former days.
  • mothsonasloth 7y ago
    Agreed, Pair Programming is over-hyped as well as this new "mobbing" concept. It affects productivity and makes people who prefer to work by themselves unhappy.
    • plausibilities 7y ago
      Pair programming and mobbing are tools which may be appropriate for some situations. Unfortunately when tool use is mandated without applying critical thinking, it often results in a great deal of waste. Mandated collaboration is also very susceptible to abuse as it typically provides an additional layer of obfuscation to shield low performing leechers. High school group projects dialed up to 11.
    • tapland 7y ago
      Doesn't have to be pair programming. Just having two employees next to eachother working on different parts of the same project can make it a social workplace. If you aren't into it the other person will probably get the hint and not talk too much. I guess this is the overtraining hampering growth I've heard about as a kid. Being an olympic level athlete makes a lot of hormones to whack.
  • raverbashing 7y ago
    I don't mind the "group" aspect so much as long as it's supportive, focusing on the team's goals and giving people space/creative freedom/thinking freedom. Now, Pair programming as in "sit next to your colleague for hours per day" is just BS
• munchbunny 7y ago
  It is and it isn't. I am a developer now, was a PM, and was a developer before that. Even with actively reaching out to people to talk to, my day to day always felt objectively solitary, and certainly solitary compared to what I experienced as a PM. That was what originally drove me away from engineering, and when I went back I got reminded of that fact.
• jplayer01 7y ago
  While programming is to a degree a collaborative effort, the act of sitting down is generally a solitary one (unless you happen to be in the 1% of companies that does pair programming extensively). I feel that she could have a place in programming, but there's the problem of finding the right company culture where collaboration is explicitly a bigger focus that would maybe allow somebody like her to thrive. (That's before even considering issues like a spotty resume and age-ism). Even so, there's a significant difference between programming or a job in sales or PR or management or etc., anything where your core job is dealing with people.
• schwurb 7y ago
  In-between coding there is more human interaction and the craft of coding itself became more social on an abstract level (code should be more communicative and all). But I would still say it is far from really social jobs - after school, I worked at a home for elderly people, and everyday left me exhausted. After work as a programmer, my social batteries feel much more charged. One could make programming an extremely social endeavour though, i.e. by constant pair programming (two of Googles best Software Engineers are doing this).
• retiredcoder 7y ago
  I also would like to reiterate that her context used to be different before - no judgements. As a competitive pro athlete, you are constant asked and in check with your body and/or emotions. There is also a greater sense of protection/support from the coaches and people involved. Whereas in the professional life, it is usually the opposite, managers are rarely willing to protect employee but extract results at their expense and coworkers couldn’t care less if you have a lower back ache, etc. It is jungle and can be confusing/sad/demotivating to realize that your best is no longer at their best interest. Yet, I find myself as developer still fortunate to have somewhat rational managers and the market condition still in our side mostly.
• xbma 7y ago
  It is for show, real work still gets done by solitary programmers. Some people may have the capacity for pair programming but I doubt that it is sustainable. The conclusion of the famous Steele/Stallman session is this: "My first thought afterward was: it was a great experience, very intense, and that I never wanted to do it again in my life."
  • teucris 7y ago
    The only excellent, productive teams I’ve ever worked with wrote software as a team. Not pair programming or mobbing, but a group discussing the plan and codebase constantly in person or over chat, reviewing eachother’s PRs, occasionally meeting to hash out a sticky architecture point. Yes, they then went to their desks, alone, and coded it all up. And yes, they all had the skills to actually put ideas into code. But to say the real work only gets done in isolation ignores the majority of the amazing collaborative work that makes great software.
• inflatableDodo 7y ago
  A friend of mine likes to point out that only in programming would two people working together earn itself the moniker of 'extreme programming'.
  • LargeWu 7y ago
    Calling XP "working together" is extremely reductive. And pair programming is only a small part of it. When it was introduced as a methodology, it was a pretty radical departure from widely accepted development practices at that time.