3 ms·
> A number of the reductions and restrictions in hero-pool were to allow for OG to have a fighting chance: All heroes with controllable illusions or clones were
by ctchocula 7y ago
> A number of the reductions and restrictions in hero-pool were to allow for OG to have a fighting chance: All heroes with controllable illusions or clones were banned because OpenAI had too much of an advantage in "micro".
This one is not so certain. One of the OG players (Notail) mentioned after the game that the AI definitely had a few weaknesses such as:
* AI didn't bother checking the trees after the splitpushing hero disappeared from the map.
* AI doesn't handle invisible units well.
* AI has poor warding.
He said he regretted not exploiting these weaknesses more. There are certain splitpush ("rat Dota") heroes that potentially could have helped OG to the detriment of AI e.g. Antimage, Furion, Morphling, Juggernaut, etc. Instead, what we saw was OG using a non-traditional split push hero (Viper) from the limited hero pool try to split push, which failed because the hero got ganked too often (Viper does not have natural escape mechanism unlike many of those splitpush heroes above and he didn't itemize for splitpush e.g. Shadowblade first item) and it doesn't push very fast. With these splitpush heroes and well-placed observer wards, I think a splitpush-based lineup could possibly take the game.
OpenAI's play was very impressive. I did not see this coming after OpenAI lost to some of the weaker pro teams at last year's TI. However, I would give OG even chances at winning a longer series (Bo5 or Bo7) over 5 or 7 days where they could learn from OpenAI's playstyle and figure out strategies on how to exploit them similar to how in longer Dota 2 tournaments, we see initially successful strategies on Day 1 get countered by the tournament final. Another analogy is the 1v1 bot that OpenAI released. When released, even pro players would lose to it. However shortly after, the combined intelligence of the Dota 2 community discovered an exploit where if you lead the enemy creepwave into the jungle, the AI bot glitches out and the human player eventually wins [1].
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6t8qvs/openai_bots_were_defeated_atleast_50_times/dliundl/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6t8qvs/openai_bots_w...
- hcnews 7y ago> AI didn't bother checking the trees after the splitpushing hero disappeared from the map. This isn't true always, AI did check trees near radiant bot T1 in the co-op match. Also, I am hoping OG competes against OpenAI during this weekend and streams it. It would be exciting to watch.
- Gatsky 7y agoNot sure I buy the argument that humans can learn to beat an AI by exploiting its weaknesses. This argument has been made many times. Kasparov said something similar when he lost to Deep Blue, yet not too long after that chess engines became unbeatable.
- unrealhoang 7y agoThat argument will fail if the game is “solved”, OpenAI with current limited same-kind-of-heroes hero pool is far from it. OpenAI current heroes pool is just about exact execution/coordination, which in and of itself is amazing nonetheless but strategical heroes like ember spirit/arc warden/nature prophets are those that bring Dota2 to much higher strategical levels.
- Gatsky 7y agoWell maybe, but so far we have seen that AI improves quickly enough that other factors are irrelevant.