4 ms·

> Who needs web standards, right? No one needs to follow web standards when one browser gets so big that it can completely dominate the technology and the corp

> Who needs web standards, right? No one needs to follow web standards when one browser gets so big that it can completely dominate the technology and the corporation that runs it can force anything they want down everyone's throats! If you don't want to see things like this happening (and you shouldn't, AMP is a disgusting technology), stop using Netscape, err, I mean, Chrome.

dfabulich 8y ago
Microsoft is in favor of it. The Chrome team generally ships stuff if at least one other major browser vendor approves.
- SamWhited 8y ago
  I'm aware of that, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it somehow.
- mook 8y ago
  Does Microsoft still count as a major browser vendor, given that they'll be shipping a blink-based browser? Of course, the same thing might be said back when Chrome was using Webkit too… and I think it was.
  - sjwright 8y ago
    The major browser vendors are: * Google (Blink –> Chrome, Edge) * Apple (WebKit –> Safari) * Mozilla (Gecko –> Firefox) Given that Microsoft has itself formally announced that EdgeHTML is abandonware, they have no ability to vote on future browser standards. That's not an opinion, it's the unavoidable consequence of not being the developer of a web browser engine. Personally I wish they still had a vote.
    - dfabulich 8y ago
      Chrome had a vote when they were on WebKit. If your browser has a bunch of users, and if you can (and do) opt to block features in your fork, you're a major browser. Microsoft has ripped a fair amount of stuff out of Chromium already. https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300772/microsoft-google-services-removed-changed-chromium-edge-browser https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300772/microsoft-google-...
      - sjwright 8y ago
        None of those Chrome features ripped out by Microsoft are web standards or web standard proposals. They are nearly all application support features or user conveniences; most of them tied in some way to the Google ecosystem. Google maintained their own fork of WebKit with countless feature deviations from the main tree. If Microsoft builds a track record of maintaining their own fork to hold back or modify actual web standard proposals written into the Blink engine then I would agree—they would regain eligibility into that list.
        tracker1 8y ago
        On a similar note, MS is/will offer many of those features themselves tied to ms/live services. Of course, I'd rather it this way as MS can at least have a browser that keeps pace with the rest of the world. Edge would be about on parity twice a year or so, and often the biggest of my headaches lately. Fortunately no longer having to support any IE currently (only browsers with async function support).
        HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
        Does the ability to do so give them a spot on the list, or do they have to flex the muscle before they can prove that it's there?
        sjwright 8y ago
        Username checks out. :-) The list is descriptive, not prescriptive. If they haven’t flexed their muscle, it doesn’t matter if they’re on the list or not. If they do assert that influence, they’re on the list.

dfabulich 8y ago

Microsoft is in favor of it. The Chrome team generally ships stuff if at least one other major browser vendor approves.

SamWhited 8y ago
I'm aware of that, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it somehow.
mook 8y ago
Does Microsoft still count as a major browser vendor, given that they'll be shipping a blink-based browser? Of course, the same thing might be said back when Chrome was using Webkit too… and I think it was.
- sjwright 8y ago
  The major browser vendors are: * Google (Blink –> Chrome, Edge) * Apple (WebKit –> Safari) * Mozilla (Gecko –> Firefox) Given that Microsoft has itself formally announced that EdgeHTML is abandonware, they have no ability to vote on future browser standards. That's not an opinion, it's the unavoidable consequence of not being the developer of a web browser engine. Personally I wish they still had a vote.
  - dfabulich 8y ago
    Chrome had a vote when they were on WebKit. If your browser has a bunch of users, and if you can (and do) opt to block features in your fork, you're a major browser. Microsoft has ripped a fair amount of stuff out of Chromium already. https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300772/microsoft-google-services-removed-changed-chromium-edge-browser https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300772/microsoft-google-...
    - sjwright 8y ago
      None of those Chrome features ripped out by Microsoft are web standards or web standard proposals. They are nearly all application support features or user conveniences; most of them tied in some way to the Google ecosystem. Google maintained their own fork of WebKit with countless feature deviations from the main tree. If Microsoft builds a track record of maintaining their own fork to hold back or modify actual web standard proposals written into the Blink engine then I would agree—they would regain eligibility into that list.
      - tracker1 8y ago
        On a similar note, MS is/will offer many of those features themselves tied to ms/live services. Of course, I'd rather it this way as MS can at least have a browser that keeps pace with the rest of the world. Edge would be about on parity twice a year or so, and often the biggest of my headaches lately. Fortunately no longer having to support any IE currently (only browsers with async function support).
      - HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
        Does the ability to do so give them a spot on the list, or do they have to flex the muscle before they can prove that it's there?
        sjwright 8y ago
        Username checks out. :-) The list is descriptive, not prescriptive. If they haven’t flexed their muscle, it doesn’t matter if they’re on the list or not. If they do assert that influence, they’re on the list.