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You cannot even pay people to do them because the first remark back among my coworkers is, they //the company// aren't giving us enough to participate. There we

You cannot even pay people to do them because the first remark back among my coworkers is, they //the company// aren't giving us enough to participate. There were even prizes for some categories for wellness categories, like the steps counting programs for which they gave up counters to weight loss. of course there are other self defeating attitudes available too, from those who won't contribute more than the match for 401k, again the company's fault, to those who take more smoke breaks because of the extra cost on their premiums. I am not sure if its a product of the education system or television. I think schools should focus a bit more on instructing students to better themselves for no other purpose than to improve themselves. that waiting for someone to make you improve yourself is the first step in failing

rorykoehler 8y ago
You couldn't pay me to participate because I categorise it as BS. It's way overstepping the jurisdiction of the employer. FWIW I don't have a problem with weight, diet or exercise.
utnick 8y ago
Maybe paying more is something that should be explored... I think for $500-$1,000 a month per person you would have widespread behavior change in most companies, and it wouldn't really even be that expensive in the context of total healthcare+wellness program spending.
- citrablue 8y ago
  Knock 5% off my insurance premium for every trip to the gym and you better believe I'm going to the gym every day...
  - chillwaves 8y ago
    Seriously. My premium is prob ~$250 a month for a single 30s male. I will go to the gym 3 days a week for a 60% discount. I'll stop eating sugar for the other 40%.
    - zdragnar 8y ago
      Wait until you try to get insurance with a partner; the cost more than doubled (presumably to preempt pregnancy or adoption I guess). Wife and I are around $820 / month, and that's with a $5k deductible.
      - edmundsauto 8y ago
        It's probably because your company puts more of a contribution towards your part of the premium.
        zdragnar 8y ago
        My current company is paying 100%. The rates jump going from 1 to 2 people, and then again when you throw in kids. This has been my experience at most places, aside from the company fully covering the cost. The $820 number is entirely their contribution. If we did have kids and needed them to be covered, we'd run out of what the company offers to cover up to ($10k / year) and have to start contributing as well.
        edmundsauto 8y ago
        I'm confused, wouldn't this be expected? More people, especially people who tend to make expensive additional people, would make the rate go up. Is your point that it went up more than double, instead of exactly double?
castlecrasher2 8y ago
>You cannot even pay people to do them You can, though. Our company did up to ten bucks a day for a walking program and participation was quite high. It promptly fell off a cliff when the value went down to up to $4 a day.
- airstrike 8y ago
  Perhaps they should have started at $2 and then bumped it to $4
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    $10 is a free meal, depending on your tastes and where you live. $2 won't even get you a cup of coffee except at a gas station. Jumping up instead of down might be better psychologically, but starting at $2 means practically no participation at all.
zrail 8y ago
> from those who won't contribute more than the match for 401k, This can be an entirely rational choice. Contributing less than the match is irrational because it's giving up on additional compensation, but often 401K choices are terrible and the tax deduction isn't worth it in many circumstances.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  And its not like the tax advantages are much good in the US 401 system.
- tvanantwerp 8y ago
  Plus 401(k) fees are usually higher than if you just opened your own IRA with Vanguard and bought some no-load index funds. Rational order to do it is: fund 401(k) to the match, fund your own IRA to the max, then fund the 401(k) to the max.
zebraflask 8y ago
I've seen the same thing. The perception is that the reward doesn't match the amount of effort required, and/or that the programs offered aren't going to do much for serious preexisting health issues (may or may not be true). And people who already like to exercise and like fitness aren't going to be motivated by what they might view as "newbie" programs. And then you get into the tangled mess of workplace interpersonal interactions and privacy issues. Does anyone want to spend even more time with their coworkers, if the program is hosted on premises? Does HR need to know that Employee #4752 wants to lose 10 pounds? Or that a different employee wants a stress reduction class? I like the idea mentioned elsewhere in the comments re: giving people a discount or other reward for proven gym attendance. That's easy enough. In my case, I'd be going to the gym, anyway, link my gym barcode to the plan and it's a done deal.
- musingsole 8y ago
  > re: giving people a discount or other reward for proven gym attendance And cut out the people who exercise elsewhere. Let the corner case chase begin!
derrida 8y ago
> There were even prizes for some categories for wellness categories, I want the "Bruce Industries LTD Competitive Meditation Champion Quarter 2 2016-17" t-shirt.
acdha 8y ago
> There were even prizes for some categories for wellness categories, like the steps counting programs for which they gave up counters to weight loss. What were the rewards like? I’ve seen those usually in the range of a fraction of a percent of salary, which isn’t going to motivate anyone. Things which would help involve spending money because most people need time and lifestyle support more than some drone nagging them about something they already knew: provide solid bike-to-work support (showers, storage, etc.), high-quality nearby childcare so parents have time to workout, ending a culture of overtime, flexible scheduling & showers so people can workout in the middle of the day, make sure that healthy and tasty food is readily available so it’s not “5 minutes to the vending machines or 30 to get non-junk”, etc.
- bluedino 8y ago
  >> What were the rewards like? I’ve seen those usually in the range of a >> fraction of a percent of salary, which isn’t going to motivate anyone. I worked in this space for a while (the company used Rails to do their apps!), so I'll give some input. It varied from company to company, but most of our customers gave out tiered rewards. Everyone who participated got a step counter of some sort. Everyone who logged X amount of days recieved a t-shirt or water bottle. And the 'winning' teams would get wellness-related gift cards ($50-$250, again depending on the company). The cards were usually for sporting goods stores or 'healthy' items but sometimes they were for chain restaurants. Now, when I say winning, there were often many teams that tied for first place. The reason was, for whatever activity you had to log (healthy foods, exercise minutes, steps), there was a daily cap. And we'd find obvious cheaters who would log all their activity on the last day of the program (or even for their whole team). People would call/email with support issues asking why they don't have the amount of points they should have, it's always a big ordeal. Teams accusing others of cheating...
  - acdha 8y ago
    I don't think any of that is wrong but it just doesn't seem reasonable to expect prizes worth 0.5% of the U.S. median income to cause significant lifestyle changes. American culture has a huge focus on fitness so I don't think there are any simple steps which will produce substantial results. My wife's school did one of these: they were relying on peer competition to drive participation but that generally is only effective over short times unless there's a big prize (a free Fitbit is multiple orders of magnitude too small), so what ended up happening is that after the first week or so it was just measuring who had already been walking more (i.e. people who lived nearby or took public transit) and would have done so in any case.

rorykoehler 8y ago

You couldn't pay me to participate because I categorise it as BS. It's way overstepping the jurisdiction of the employer. FWIW I don't have a problem with weight, diet or exercise.

utnick 8y ago

Maybe paying more is something that should be explored... I think for $500-$1,000 a month per person you would have widespread behavior change in most companies, and it wouldn't really even be that expensive in the context of total healthcare+wellness program spending.

citrablue 8y ago
Knock 5% off my insurance premium for every trip to the gym and you better believe I'm going to the gym every day...
- chillwaves 8y ago
  Seriously. My premium is prob ~$250 a month for a single 30s male. I will go to the gym 3 days a week for a 60% discount. I'll stop eating sugar for the other 40%.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    Wait until you try to get insurance with a partner; the cost more than doubled (presumably to preempt pregnancy or adoption I guess). Wife and I are around $820 / month, and that's with a $5k deductible.
    - edmundsauto 8y ago
      It's probably because your company puts more of a contribution towards your part of the premium.
      - zdragnar 8y ago
        My current company is paying 100%. The rates jump going from 1 to 2 people, and then again when you throw in kids. This has been my experience at most places, aside from the company fully covering the cost. The $820 number is entirely their contribution. If we did have kids and needed them to be covered, we'd run out of what the company offers to cover up to ($10k / year) and have to start contributing as well.
        edmundsauto 8y ago
        I'm confused, wouldn't this be expected? More people, especially people who tend to make expensive additional people, would make the rate go up. Is your point that it went up more than double, instead of exactly double?

castlecrasher2 8y ago

>You cannot even pay people to do them You can, though. Our company did up to ten bucks a day for a walking program and participation was quite high. It promptly fell off a cliff when the value went down to up to $4 a day.

airstrike 8y ago
Perhaps they should have started at $2 and then bumped it to $4
- zdragnar 8y ago
  $10 is a free meal, depending on your tastes and where you live. $2 won't even get you a cup of coffee except at a gas station. Jumping up instead of down might be better psychologically, but starting at $2 means practically no participation at all.

zrail 8y ago

> from those who won't contribute more than the match for 401k, This can be an entirely rational choice. Contributing less than the match is irrational because it's giving up on additional compensation, but often 401K choices are terrible and the tax deduction isn't worth it in many circumstances.

C1sc0cat 8y ago
And its not like the tax advantages are much good in the US 401 system.
tvanantwerp 8y ago
Plus 401(k) fees are usually higher than if you just opened your own IRA with Vanguard and bought some no-load index funds. Rational order to do it is: fund 401(k) to the match, fund your own IRA to the max, then fund the 401(k) to the max.

zebraflask 8y ago

I've seen the same thing. The perception is that the reward doesn't match the amount of effort required, and/or that the programs offered aren't going to do much for serious preexisting health issues (may or may not be true). And people who already like to exercise and like fitness aren't going to be motivated by what they might view as "newbie" programs. And then you get into the tangled mess of workplace interpersonal interactions and privacy issues. Does anyone want to spend even more time with their coworkers, if the program is hosted on premises? Does HR need to know that Employee #4752 wants to lose 10 pounds? Or that a different employee wants a stress reduction class? I like the idea mentioned elsewhere in the comments re: giving people a discount or other reward for proven gym attendance. That's easy enough. In my case, I'd be going to the gym, anyway, link my gym barcode to the plan and it's a done deal.

musingsole 8y ago
> re: giving people a discount or other reward for proven gym attendance And cut out the people who exercise elsewhere. Let the corner case chase begin!

derrida 8y ago

> There were even prizes for some categories for wellness categories, I want the "Bruce Industries LTD Competitive Meditation Champion Quarter 2 2016-17" t-shirt.

acdha 8y ago

> There were even prizes for some categories for wellness categories, like the steps counting programs for which they gave up counters to weight loss. What were the rewards like? I’ve seen those usually in the range of a fraction of a percent of salary, which isn’t going to motivate anyone. Things which would help involve spending money because most people need time and lifestyle support more than some drone nagging them about something they already knew: provide solid bike-to-work support (showers, storage, etc.), high-quality nearby childcare so parents have time to workout, ending a culture of overtime, flexible scheduling & showers so people can workout in the middle of the day, make sure that healthy and tasty food is readily available so it’s not “5 minutes to the vending machines or 30 to get non-junk”, etc.

bluedino 8y ago
>> What were the rewards like? I’ve seen those usually in the range of a >> fraction of a percent of salary, which isn’t going to motivate anyone. I worked in this space for a while (the company used Rails to do their apps!), so I'll give some input. It varied from company to company, but most of our customers gave out tiered rewards. Everyone who participated got a step counter of some sort. Everyone who logged X amount of days recieved a t-shirt or water bottle. And the 'winning' teams would get wellness-related gift cards ($50-$250, again depending on the company). The cards were usually for sporting goods stores or 'healthy' items but sometimes they were for chain restaurants. Now, when I say winning, there were often many teams that tied for first place. The reason was, for whatever activity you had to log (healthy foods, exercise minutes, steps), there was a daily cap. And we'd find obvious cheaters who would log all their activity on the last day of the program (or even for their whole team). People would call/email with support issues asking why they don't have the amount of points they should have, it's always a big ordeal. Teams accusing others of cheating...
- acdha 8y ago
  I don't think any of that is wrong but it just doesn't seem reasonable to expect prizes worth 0.5% of the U.S. median income to cause significant lifestyle changes. American culture has a huge focus on fitness so I don't think there are any simple steps which will produce substantial results. My wife's school did one of these: they were relying on peer competition to drive participation but that generally is only effective over short times unless there's a big prize (a free Fitbit is multiple orders of magnitude too small), so what ended up happening is that after the first week or so it was just measuring who had already been walking more (i.e. people who lived nearby or took public transit) and would have done so in any case.