4 ms·

> Second, if Ph.D. students are training for but then leaving the profession, and if the humane, short-term solution to adjunctification is to close down or dra

> Second, if Ph.D. students are training for but then leaving the profession, and if the humane, short-term solution to adjunctification is to close down or drastically shrink Ph.D. programs, then universities are effectively admitting that there is no future for those fields. I think this plays right into other employment issues. There is a feeling that employers will not train you. Many STEM based employers that need highly trained individuals (DoD, Pharma, data-science, etc) are outsourcing some of that training to PhD programs. Thus far, the situation has been acceptable in STEMy fields. But the PhD program is not structured to train the high skills workforce (it just happens to be okayish at doing so) and that mis-match is coming to a head.

msla 8y ago
A PhD isn't training to do a job other than research. If it is, it isn't a PhD. Some specific PhD topics have utility in industry, but that isn't guaranteed, and even if a topic does, the people studying that topic won't automatically know how to apply their work to anything a commercial employer would be interested in. TL;DR: Until commercial employers start to rely on grants, a PhD isn't job training.
- BeetleB 8y ago
  >A PhD isn't training to do a job other than research. That's simply wrong. >A doctorate (from Latin docere, "to teach") or doctor's degree (from Latin doctor, "teacher") or doctoral degree, is an academic degree awarded by universities, derived from the ancient formalism licentia docendi ("licence to teach") In most countries, it is a research degree that qualifies the holder to teach at university level in the degree's field, or to work in a specific profession. We've recently formalized it to "doing research", but for most of history it has not been limited to, or even primarily for, research.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
chris2345 8y ago
As a DoD employee....you are incredibly wrong. The DoD paid for my undergrad, then paid me a full salary to get a masters, and they do the same for a PhD. This is a very common thing for them to do.
- musicale 8y ago
  re: "As a DoD employee... [I think] you are incredibly wrong." DoD is almost certainly the exception rather than the rule. Some Silicon Valley companies will pay for your master's degree, but usually you still have to work full time for the company in addition to your course work. I've heard of some companies like Pixar actively training their employees for several months and paying them to learn (rather than expecting them to keep working full time in addition to training) but that seems unusual.
  - gautamdivgi 8y ago
    > Some Silicon Valley companies will pay for your master's degree, but usually you still have to work full time for the company in addition to your course work. Why is this a bad thing - I'm genuinely curious? I completed a masters and a PhD the same way. Of course, the downside is that since I already had a job I wasn't going to deal with the funding rat-race that comes with academia and stayed in industry. Edit: The biggest upside - career growth, no student loans, regular paycheck, health insurance, etc, etc.
    - rifung 8y ago
      > Why is this a bad thing - I'm genuinely curious? First of all I admire you for finishing a Master's and PhD while working. I personally think about going back to school all the time (I didn't finish undergrad) but am pretty confident that if I do I would want to go full time. My reason is just that working full time is exhausting and I can't imagine being able to give 100% to my studies if I'm also constantly fatigued from work. I certainly still am able to learn new things after working, but compared to when I was focused on school completely I learn at a much slower pace. There's a lot of cognitive overhead in having to context switch, at least for me personally.

msla 8y ago

A PhD isn't training to do a job other than research. If it is, it isn't a PhD. Some specific PhD topics have utility in industry, but that isn't guaranteed, and even if a topic does, the people studying that topic won't automatically know how to apply their work to anything a commercial employer would be interested in. TL;DR: Until commercial employers start to rely on grants, a PhD isn't job training.

BeetleB 8y ago
>A PhD isn't training to do a job other than research. That's simply wrong. >A doctorate (from Latin docere, "to teach") or doctor's degree (from Latin doctor, "teacher") or doctoral degree, is an academic degree awarded by universities, derived from the ancient formalism licentia docendi ("licence to teach") In most countries, it is a research degree that qualifies the holder to teach at university level in the degree's field, or to work in a specific profession. We've recently formalized it to "doing research", but for most of history it has not been limited to, or even primarily for, research.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

chris2345 8y ago

As a DoD employee....you are incredibly wrong. The DoD paid for my undergrad, then paid me a full salary to get a masters, and they do the same for a PhD. This is a very common thing for them to do.

musicale 8y ago
re: "As a DoD employee... [I think] you are incredibly wrong." DoD is almost certainly the exception rather than the rule. Some Silicon Valley companies will pay for your master's degree, but usually you still have to work full time for the company in addition to your course work. I've heard of some companies like Pixar actively training their employees for several months and paying them to learn (rather than expecting them to keep working full time in addition to training) but that seems unusual.
- gautamdivgi 8y ago
  > Some Silicon Valley companies will pay for your master's degree, but usually you still have to work full time for the company in addition to your course work. Why is this a bad thing - I'm genuinely curious? I completed a masters and a PhD the same way. Of course, the downside is that since I already had a job I wasn't going to deal with the funding rat-race that comes with academia and stayed in industry. Edit: The biggest upside - career growth, no student loans, regular paycheck, health insurance, etc, etc.
  - rifung 8y ago
    > Why is this a bad thing - I'm genuinely curious? First of all I admire you for finishing a Master's and PhD while working. I personally think about going back to school all the time (I didn't finish undergrad) but am pretty confident that if I do I would want to go full time. My reason is just that working full time is exhausting and I can't imagine being able to give 100% to my studies if I'm also constantly fatigued from work. I certainly still am able to learn new things after working, but compared to when I was focused on school completely I learn at a much slower pace. There's a lot of cognitive overhead in having to context switch, at least for me personally.