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Tattoos are generally stigmatized in most of East Asia: China, Korea, Japan and cultures affected by these countries. Although there are some ties to the past

Tattoos are generally stigmatized in most of East Asia: China, Korea, Japan and cultures affected by these countries. Although there are some ties to the past with tattoos predominantly being used by outlaws, criminals, prisoners, slaves (prisoners and slaves were branded with tattoos on the face to ensure people knew who they were and was also considered a punishment of its own) or soldiers (in certain periods of history, soldiers weren't respected in China and considered a lowly job as there was a high chance of death and they often were involved in pillaging in the more chaotic times), modern-day stigma is from criminals and gangsters who would use tattoos to differentiate themselves and show themselves as "hard and not to be messed with" or to inspire courage within themselves. Nowadays its a bit more relaxed but even now people will hide tattoos in job interviews because it can mean an automatic rejection.

kibwen 7y ago
Note that despite the fact that tattoos are rather normalized in the West, the default stance is still to hide them during job interviews, with varying degrees of leniency depending on industry and region (e.g. Microsoft probably doesn't care if its programmers are tattooed, though it will for its corporate salespeople).
- mises 7y ago
  Many tech companies may not care about their programmers, but many others still care if anyone in any position has anything visible.
  - HillRat 7y ago
    There does appear to be a normalization going on, though; in my line of work (F500 consulting), I’ve seen multiple examples of prominent tattoos on both the consultant and client/buyer side (mostly tribal sleeve/neck ink on men). It’s still unusual enough to remark on, but I suspect in a decade or so will either be completely unremarkable, or else the slightly-embarrassing if harmless remnants of a dated fad.
    - mises 7y ago
      Given the health risks, I'm not sure that's a good thing. Many pigments are made out of heavy metals [0], and while it might have immune benefits, it's for the same reason as bee stings (a minor irritant that keeps it on its toes). The difference is that bee stings don't contain heavy metals. They've also struck me as a bit tacky (like most other fads), the difference of course being that they're permanent. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tattoo-ink-mercury-and-other-toxins/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tattoo-ink-mercur...
      - moate 7y ago
        >>Given the health risks, I'm not sure that's a good thing There's also "health risks" in going to a restaurant, or storing bleach in your home. You show me a study that gives a marked decline in health or life expectancy among heavily tattooed individuals, or else this is just some low quality fear mongering. >>(like most other fads) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing I think judging people is extremely tacky, especially when you do so in a way that makes you sound poorly informed about the subject matter. We get it, you don't like tattoos or how they look. That's really your problem though, nobody else's. Policing other people's bodies is a bad look.
        mises 7y ago
        How could I "policing other people's bodies"? I can't police any thing; I'm not a policeman and neither can nor ought to enforce my ideas on others. I linked something above with respect to heavy metals; Scientific American is generally considered a good source. It lists infection risk, mercury exposure, and exposure to numerous other heavy metals as risks. I also imagine that these risks are increased with removal, as the ink must be broken up and processed by the body. Ancients mainly used ash, as I understand it, which is certainly lower risk than heavy metals. In any case, it seems to have very little reward for a high risk. This is anecdotal, but I know some body who nearly had her leg amputated below the knee because of a chronic wound caused by an ankle tattoo becoming infected. This is doubly risky in light of the recent uptick in drug-resistant bacteria. Finally, a European Commission report says the inks could have serious health consequences (https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/sep/28/tattoo-ink-cancer-regulation https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/sep/28...). > I think judging people is extremely tacky, especially when you do so in a way that makes you sound poorly informed about the subject matter. I'm not judging a person over all, rather I am saying a choice he made may have been unwise. If the evidence I have provided is wrong, let me know why. It is the choice of any man what he does with his body, but that doesn't mean it's not okay to discuss the medical risks. Many people around here seem open to discussing the effects of other risky behaviors; why is it not okay to discuss the effects of this one?
- mywittyname 7y ago
  To be fair, the default stance on interview attire for men is a suit, which covers like 95% of a persons body.
  - moate 7y ago
    How very white collar of you to think that. I think maybe 25% of my interviews have been in a suit, the rest being some version of industry specific clothing (chef's whites) or just jeans and button-down. I can't imagine I'm that much of an outlier here.
    - EliRivers 7y ago
      You're not an outlier here, but here is a bubble inside a bubble. I wore a shirt [0] and tie for my first job interview (video rental store, got the job before I sat down because no other candidate was wearing a shirt and tie) and have worn a suit for every job interview since (although I often take off the jacket once we're sat down). Apropos of the general subject, I've had to give feedback to more than one person in their probation period along the lines of "buy a belt and use it, nobody wants to see your underwear or what your underwear should be covering". There are some shockingly badly dressed software engineers. Comfortable and casual is one thing, but your clothes falling off you or exposing parts of yourself nobody wants to see? [0] I think in US English, one would call this a "formal shirt". In England, it's just a shirt.
      - moate 7y ago
        I think the culture as a whole keeps moving away from formality, which I don't find to be bad. Many times, formality is just an inauthentic pretense meant to make people in positions of power feel comfortable. Clothing is a form of self expression, which employers don't want because <reasons>. fwiw, the phrase "shirt and tie" in American English is understood to be a button up shirt (I don't think most people specifically call this a "formal shirt") and tie. The "and tie" acts as a contextual modifier since it's rarely assumed someone would be wearing a tie with a t-shirt or something casual.
- opportune 7y ago
  I doubt most businesses would even care if their salespeople were tatted as long as it wasn't on their face or gaudy (like something lewd/tacky or really big like a full sleeve). An ankle or wrist tattoo seems pretty normal and may be visible a sizable amount of the time.
tanilama 7y ago
Because of Hong Kong movie's influence, I was brought up thinking tattoos are for gangsters.
adisbladis 7y ago
In Japan tattoos are generally banned from spa areas (which there are a lot of, pretty much all capsule hotels have one). It was explained to me that this was a roundabout way of banning the Yakuza.
- pcbro141 7y ago
  I wonder if they would bother enforcing the ban on foreigners, since it's a roundabout way of banning the Yakuza.
  - elcomet 7y ago
    I wonder if they keep it as a way of banning foreigners..
    - acct1771 7y ago
      They probably keep it as a way to restrict both.
  - Nadya 7y ago
    Places will enforce it - I'd say most do not - but my sample size is only large enough to say confidentially that the places my friends went to do not, with one exception that enforced it. Source: Friends with tattoos who have visited Japan as I don't have any myself. E: This is one of very, very few shows I'd ever recommend and it covers this topic: https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/needles-and-pins https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/needles-and-pins , specifically the ones in Japan and South Korea which have very similar culture surrounding tattoos.
  - wishinghand 7y ago
    I went to a public onsen in Hakone. More like a western spa than a bathhouse. They made me purchase a covering for my leg tattoo, even though I am not Japanese and therefore could never have been Yakuza.
    - a_t48 7y ago
thefounder 7y ago
Tattoos are generally stigmatized everywhere. Most of the people in prisons have tattos so this may be a reason why people with tattos have traditionally been seen as "bad" people.
miohtama 7y ago
People who have tattoos are not allowed to enter Japanese bath houses. Because they cannot say that Yakuza members, who are more than often tattooed, are not welcome.
- duncan-donuts 7y ago
  Do yakuza still get tattooed as heavily as the used to? I swear I read a while back that Russian mob members don’t get tattooed anymore, but I can’t seem to find the article I read.
- dahdum 7y ago
  This isn't accurate, businesses ban Yakuza members in their terms all the time. The capsule hotel I visited banned all members, and IIRC, all managers and executives of any Yakuza-linked business. Here's an article about the ordinances they passed encouraging it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_exclusion_ordinances#Exclusion_from_private-sector_businesses_(Article_18) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_exclusion_ordinances#Ex...
ewgoforth 7y ago
The perception of tattoos in the US was pretty much the same until the late eighties. Only criminals, bikers, and some military people had them. The Research book Modern Primitives seemed to really popularize them among college kids in the US and it kind of trickled down from there. I definitely saw a lot of people get them in the wake of that book. As this generation has gotten older tattoos have become more acceptable.

kibwen 7y ago

Note that despite the fact that tattoos are rather normalized in the West, the default stance is still to hide them during job interviews, with varying degrees of leniency depending on industry and region (e.g. Microsoft probably doesn't care if its programmers are tattooed, though it will for its corporate salespeople).

mises 7y ago
Many tech companies may not care about their programmers, but many others still care if anyone in any position has anything visible.
- HillRat 7y ago
  There does appear to be a normalization going on, though; in my line of work (F500 consulting), I’ve seen multiple examples of prominent tattoos on both the consultant and client/buyer side (mostly tribal sleeve/neck ink on men). It’s still unusual enough to remark on, but I suspect in a decade or so will either be completely unremarkable, or else the slightly-embarrassing if harmless remnants of a dated fad.
  - mises 7y ago
    Given the health risks, I'm not sure that's a good thing. Many pigments are made out of heavy metals [0], and while it might have immune benefits, it's for the same reason as bee stings (a minor irritant that keeps it on its toes). The difference is that bee stings don't contain heavy metals. They've also struck me as a bit tacky (like most other fads), the difference of course being that they're permanent. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tattoo-ink-mercury-and-other-toxins/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tattoo-ink-mercur...
    - moate 7y ago
      >>Given the health risks, I'm not sure that's a good thing There's also "health risks" in going to a restaurant, or storing bleach in your home. You show me a study that gives a marked decline in health or life expectancy among heavily tattooed individuals, or else this is just some low quality fear mongering. >>(like most other fads) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing I think judging people is extremely tacky, especially when you do so in a way that makes you sound poorly informed about the subject matter. We get it, you don't like tattoos or how they look. That's really your problem though, nobody else's. Policing other people's bodies is a bad look.
      - mises 7y ago
        How could I "policing other people's bodies"? I can't police any thing; I'm not a policeman and neither can nor ought to enforce my ideas on others. I linked something above with respect to heavy metals; Scientific American is generally considered a good source. It lists infection risk, mercury exposure, and exposure to numerous other heavy metals as risks. I also imagine that these risks are increased with removal, as the ink must be broken up and processed by the body. Ancients mainly used ash, as I understand it, which is certainly lower risk than heavy metals. In any case, it seems to have very little reward for a high risk. This is anecdotal, but I know some body who nearly had her leg amputated below the knee because of a chronic wound caused by an ankle tattoo becoming infected. This is doubly risky in light of the recent uptick in drug-resistant bacteria. Finally, a European Commission report says the inks could have serious health consequences (https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/sep/28/tattoo-ink-cancer-regulation https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/sep/28...). > I think judging people is extremely tacky, especially when you do so in a way that makes you sound poorly informed about the subject matter. I'm not judging a person over all, rather I am saying a choice he made may have been unwise. If the evidence I have provided is wrong, let me know why. It is the choice of any man what he does with his body, but that doesn't mean it's not okay to discuss the medical risks. Many people around here seem open to discussing the effects of other risky behaviors; why is it not okay to discuss the effects of this one?
mywittyname 7y ago
To be fair, the default stance on interview attire for men is a suit, which covers like 95% of a persons body.
- moate 7y ago
  How very white collar of you to think that. I think maybe 25% of my interviews have been in a suit, the rest being some version of industry specific clothing (chef's whites) or just jeans and button-down. I can't imagine I'm that much of an outlier here.
  - EliRivers 7y ago
    You're not an outlier here, but here is a bubble inside a bubble. I wore a shirt [0] and tie for my first job interview (video rental store, got the job before I sat down because no other candidate was wearing a shirt and tie) and have worn a suit for every job interview since (although I often take off the jacket once we're sat down). Apropos of the general subject, I've had to give feedback to more than one person in their probation period along the lines of "buy a belt and use it, nobody wants to see your underwear or what your underwear should be covering". There are some shockingly badly dressed software engineers. Comfortable and casual is one thing, but your clothes falling off you or exposing parts of yourself nobody wants to see? [0] I think in US English, one would call this a "formal shirt". In England, it's just a shirt.
    - moate 7y ago
      I think the culture as a whole keeps moving away from formality, which I don't find to be bad. Many times, formality is just an inauthentic pretense meant to make people in positions of power feel comfortable. Clothing is a form of self expression, which employers don't want because <reasons>. fwiw, the phrase "shirt and tie" in American English is understood to be a button up shirt (I don't think most people specifically call this a "formal shirt") and tie. The "and tie" acts as a contextual modifier since it's rarely assumed someone would be wearing a tie with a t-shirt or something casual.
opportune 7y ago
I doubt most businesses would even care if their salespeople were tatted as long as it wasn't on their face or gaudy (like something lewd/tacky or really big like a full sleeve). An ankle or wrist tattoo seems pretty normal and may be visible a sizable amount of the time.

tanilama 7y ago

Because of Hong Kong movie's influence, I was brought up thinking tattoos are for gangsters.

adisbladis 7y ago

In Japan tattoos are generally banned from spa areas (which there are a lot of, pretty much all capsule hotels have one). It was explained to me that this was a roundabout way of banning the Yakuza.

pcbro141 7y ago
I wonder if they would bother enforcing the ban on foreigners, since it's a roundabout way of banning the Yakuza.
- elcomet 7y ago
  I wonder if they keep it as a way of banning foreigners..
  - acct1771 7y ago
    They probably keep it as a way to restrict both.
- Nadya 7y ago
  Places will enforce it - I'd say most do not - but my sample size is only large enough to say confidentially that the places my friends went to do not, with one exception that enforced it. Source: Friends with tattoos who have visited Japan as I don't have any myself. E: This is one of very, very few shows I'd ever recommend and it covers this topic: https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/needles-and-pins https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/needles-and-pins , specifically the ones in Japan and South Korea which have very similar culture surrounding tattoos.
- wishinghand 7y ago
  I went to a public onsen in Hakone. More like a western spa than a bathhouse. They made me purchase a covering for my leg tattoo, even though I am not Japanese and therefore could never have been Yakuza.
  - a_t48 7y ago

thefounder 7y ago

Tattoos are generally stigmatized everywhere. Most of the people in prisons have tattos so this may be a reason why people with tattos have traditionally been seen as "bad" people.

miohtama 7y ago

People who have tattoos are not allowed to enter Japanese bath houses. Because they cannot say that Yakuza members, who are more than often tattooed, are not welcome.

duncan-donuts 7y ago
Do yakuza still get tattooed as heavily as the used to? I swear I read a while back that Russian mob members don’t get tattooed anymore, but I can’t seem to find the article I read.
dahdum 7y ago
This isn't accurate, businesses ban Yakuza members in their terms all the time. The capsule hotel I visited banned all members, and IIRC, all managers and executives of any Yakuza-linked business. Here's an article about the ordinances they passed encouraging it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_exclusion_ordinances#Exclusion_from_private-sector_businesses_(Article_18) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_exclusion_ordinances#Ex...

ewgoforth 7y ago

The perception of tattoos in the US was pretty much the same until the late eighties. Only criminals, bikers, and some military people had them. The Research book Modern Primitives seemed to really popularize them among college kids in the US and it kind of trickled down from there. I definitely saw a lot of people get them in the wake of that book. As this generation has gotten older tattoos have become more acceptable.