4 ms·

And if you leave your shiny new car in the wrong part of town with the door open and the keys in the ignition, you're not calling for it to be stolen, but you k

by mrec 8y ago

And if you leave your shiny new car in the wrong part of town with the door open and the keys in the ignition, you're not calling for it to be stolen, but you know damn well it's going to be. May doesn't want to call it a customs union, because her 2017 manifesto committed to leaving the Customs Union, but that's absolutely what it amounts to. I don't know whether Labour really want it, or even understand what it entails; I suspect they mostly wanted a point of disagreement with the government.

ineedasername 8y ago
What May actually believes I suppose I don't really know. But a large portion of the hard-line Tory Brexiters are adamant that it isn't a permanent customs union and absolutely will not allow the backstop option to become such. It's that very sticking point that has lead to her lack of support for the plan within her own party. The apparent contradiction vis-a-vis leaving your car in a bad place is largely due to that same hard brexit wing wanting both to eat their cake, have it too, and maybe steal all the cake from the rest of the EU (that last part is probably an exaggeration. cake is delicious and no one in their right mind would let it be taken away or even deprive another person of it.)
- mrec 8y ago
  I think you're deeply confused about who believes what. 1. May is not and has never been a Brexiter. I honestly can't understand how anyone still thinks she is. 2. If by "hard-line Tory Brexiters" you mean the ERG, they absolutely hate the WA, largely because it ends in a customs union. If you know of an exception, I'd be interested to hear who it is. 3. The "cakeism"/"cherry-picking" thing is almost entirely May. The voting public was told before the referendum that Leave meant leaving the Single Market and Customs Union completely. May's manifesto at the 2017 election said the same. Insofar as there was a mandate, that was it. She had absolutely NO mandate for suddenly pulling out that weird Chequers monstrosity; nobody ever wanted it except her and Olly Robbins. Your "hard-line Tory Brexiters" (and a lot of the softer ones) almost universally want a WTO exit at this point, with no special treatment, because May has wrecked any chance of getting anything better.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    1. Almost all Remainers think May is a hardcore Leaver, because of what I’m about to say for 3. 3. Except for anyone who heard or saw: “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” - Daniel Hannan MEP “Only a madman would actually leave the Market” - Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer And anyone who knows that Norway is in the single market who heard: “Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing” - Nigel Farage “The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people” - Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive “Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK” - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder
  - ineedasername 8y ago
    1) I think she wants to leave. Why she wants to leave is hard to say. I'm inclined to think it's as much cynical political opportunism as anything else. It's what she campaigned on and has shouted since becoming PM. Certainly she's not in the ERG range of things though. 2) I thought that was pretty much what I'm saying. ERG types dislike May's plan because it has no legally binding guarantee for when the Backstop would end. That's probably a good thing on giving ample time to thread the needle (which may be impossible) on a compromise that won't spike the Good Friday Accord and start folks trying to blow up cake all over again. In this case, cake is people, cars, and buildings. 3. Yes. Cake, as I said, is fantastic. Here though, there's no majority in favor of any particular flavor, and most people are perfectly satisfied to deny cake to everyone that doesn't want their flavor. It's become sort of a "I'll have my cake and eat yours too" situation. I'm not sure the metaphor matches all that well at this point, but I really want some cake right now so I'm sticking to it.
    - mrec 8y ago
      OK, I'm calling a severe case of Cake Derangement Syndrome and revoking your cake privileges. For the sake of both your mental health and your incipient diabetes.

by mrec 8y ago

ineedasername 8y ago

What May actually believes I suppose I don't really know. But a large portion of the hard-line Tory Brexiters are adamant that it isn't a permanent customs union and absolutely will not allow the backstop option to become such. It's that very sticking point that has lead to her lack of support for the plan within her own party. The apparent contradiction vis-a-vis leaving your car in a bad place is largely due to that same hard brexit wing wanting both to eat their cake, have it too, and maybe steal all the cake from the rest of the EU (that last part is probably an exaggeration. cake is delicious and no one in their right mind would let it be taken away or even deprive another person of it.)

mrec 8y ago
I think you're deeply confused about who believes what. 1. May is not and has never been a Brexiter. I honestly can't understand how anyone still thinks she is. 2. If by "hard-line Tory Brexiters" you mean the ERG, they absolutely hate the WA, largely because it ends in a customs union. If you know of an exception, I'd be interested to hear who it is. 3. The "cakeism"/"cherry-picking" thing is almost entirely May. The voting public was told before the referendum that Leave meant leaving the Single Market and Customs Union completely. May's manifesto at the 2017 election said the same. Insofar as there was a mandate, that was it. She had absolutely NO mandate for suddenly pulling out that weird Chequers monstrosity; nobody ever wanted it except her and Olly Robbins. Your "hard-line Tory Brexiters" (and a lot of the softer ones) almost universally want a WTO exit at this point, with no special treatment, because May has wrecked any chance of getting anything better.
- ben_w 8y ago
  1. Almost all Remainers think May is a hardcore Leaver, because of what I’m about to say for 3. 3. Except for anyone who heard or saw: “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” - Daniel Hannan MEP “Only a madman would actually leave the Market” - Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer And anyone who knows that Norway is in the single market who heard: “Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing” - Nigel Farage “The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people” - Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive “Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK” - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder
- ineedasername 8y ago
  1) I think she wants to leave. Why she wants to leave is hard to say. I'm inclined to think it's as much cynical political opportunism as anything else. It's what she campaigned on and has shouted since becoming PM. Certainly she's not in the ERG range of things though. 2) I thought that was pretty much what I'm saying. ERG types dislike May's plan because it has no legally binding guarantee for when the Backstop would end. That's probably a good thing on giving ample time to thread the needle (which may be impossible) on a compromise that won't spike the Good Friday Accord and start folks trying to blow up cake all over again. In this case, cake is people, cars, and buildings. 3. Yes. Cake, as I said, is fantastic. Here though, there's no majority in favor of any particular flavor, and most people are perfectly satisfied to deny cake to everyone that doesn't want their flavor. It's become sort of a "I'll have my cake and eat yours too" situation. I'm not sure the metaphor matches all that well at this point, but I really want some cake right now so I'm sticking to it.
  - mrec 8y ago
    OK, I'm calling a severe case of Cake Derangement Syndrome and revoking your cake privileges. For the sake of both your mental health and your incipient diabetes.