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It's all nonsense. The higher frequencies are non-ionizing and in common use today. See all of those microwave antennas on buildings and towers? A lot of them t

by xxpor 8y ago

It's all nonsense. The higher frequencies are non-ionizing and in common use today. See all of those microwave antennas on buildings and towers? A lot of them transmit around there. Your neighbor can blast 24 ghz right at your house with a free licence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1.2-centimeter_band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1.2-centimeter_band The reason microwaves (like from a microwave oven) are dangerous are because of their power levels. Like, they'd cook you if they leaked out. Not because of ionizing radiation.

throwaway995669 8y ago
Non-ionizing radiation does have potential biological effects on Voltage-Gated Calcium Channels (VGCCs) which our cells have plenty of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  Not when immersed in a giant bag of salt water.
lima 8y ago
> Like, they'd cook you if they leaked out. Nope, they wouldn't. The standing wave would break down as soon as it left the enclosure. It would still be a potentially harmful amount of radiation, but not like that. And no, 24 GHz is not in common use. It's used for special applications, mostly highly directional tower-to-tower links (I have one sitting on my roof for a high-bandwidth HAM radio link). With 5G, it will be ubiquitous in an unprecedented way. We've already seen plenty of interference with 5 GHz. Of course, there's a lot of fearmongering whenever RF radiation is involved, but there are genuine safety concerns. Source: HAM radio operator
- xxpor 8y ago
  >Nope, they wouldn't. The standing wave would break down as soon as it left the enclosure. It would still be a potentially harmful amount of radiation, but not like that. Yeah that's a good point >And no, 24 GHz is not in common use. It's used for special applications, mostly highly directional tower-to-tower links (I have one sitting on my roof for a high-bandwidth HAM radio link). That's what I mean by common use. Omnidirectional antennas aren't in common use.
- torqueTorrent 8y ago
  In school, we used to learn about the RF service technicians returning with stories of dead birds and other such phantasmagoria in and around the sweet spots of the feedhorn, antenna, transmission line, transmitter or other such sensitive areas of high power microwave operations. Professor also admonished us that such technicians must always be infinitely certain that the transmitter is not operational at the time of service.
  - adsfqwop 8y ago
    > Professor also admonished us that such technicians must always be infinitely certain that the transmitter is not operational at the time of service. It's a good thing your professor is not a tower technician. No self respecting technician climbs up a tower without knowing his potential exposure. There is a reason both the US FCC and EU ICNIRP have guidelines for human exposure, and if you are a tower technician you wear a personal RF densitometer to ensure you are not exposed above these levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_RF_safety_monitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_RF_safety_monitor "Electromagnetic field densitometers, as used in the cellular phone industry, are referred as "personal RF safety monitors", personal protection monitors (PPM) or RF exposimeters.[1] They form part of the personal protective equipment worn by a person working in areas exposed to radio spectrum radiation." And even with a densitometer, when working on high-powered live equipment, you also wear a protective suit: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NardalertS3_SuitS.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Nardaler... I hope you forward this information to your professor. Industrial RF radiation is not something you want to play around with.
    - cannedslime 8y ago
      I saw a video recently where a guy took a densitometer to a street with 5g in my country, and lets just say that there was plenty of sweet spots where it was well over 500uw/m2. Im no expert or anything, but seems like allowing 4 different vendors to put up 5g infrastructure all over the place might not be such a great idea.
      - 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
macawfish 8y ago
Why is it that you can just dismiss the hesitancy of more than a hundred researchers with PhD's in a wide range of relevant disciplines who have made careers out of studying this kind of thing by simply posting a comment saying "it's all nonsense"? https://emfscientist.org/index.php/emf-scientist-appeal https://emfscientist.org/index.php/emf-scientist-appeal ctrl-f for "PhD" shows 126 results on the page. Electromagnetic radiation is used as a signaling medium for countless lifeforms on earth, including the cells and microbes in our own bodies. Imagine if some alien creature decided they wanted to flash relatively bright blue light across the entire surface planet, day and night at frequencies that known to induce epileptic seizures. It'd affect your quality of life and mine. For some people, it'd be devastating. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. I fail to see how a blanket dismissal of peoples concerns, however uninformed many of them may be, counts as "rational"!
- xxpor 8y ago
  >ctrl-f for "PhD" shows 126 results on the page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Show me one species that uses GHz signalling.
- cloakandswagger 8y ago
  I can find 100 crackpot scientists as easily as I can find 100 crackpot doctors or mathematicians. Instead of appeals to authority, why can't we work with the facts and evidence that we have already (those overwhelmingly disproving the health hazards of 5G)? "Peoples concerns" equate to the desire to halt all human progress out of some bizarre mix of paranoia and Neo-Luddism.
  - throwaway995669 8y ago
    That's an ad hominem attack. It's an inconvenient possibility (not going to call it truth) that our technology might be hurting us. We're addicted to technology the same way smokers are addicted to nicotine. Smoking was at one time considered healthy and promoted by doctors, and now where are we?
cuonic 8y ago
> See all of those microwave antennas on buildings and towers? A lot of them transmit around there. But microwave links are P2P and directional, using narrow beams at a certain height so that humans (or other objects) don't get in the way. That will not be the case with 5G.
- dicknuckle 8y ago
  microwave is a broad term. WiFi in your house is in the microwave band. microwave CAN be directional and focused, but doesn't have to be.

by xxpor 8y ago

throwaway995669 8y ago

Non-ionizing radiation does have potential biological effects on Voltage-Gated Calcium Channels (VGCCs) which our cells have plenty of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

CamperBob2 8y ago
Not when immersed in a giant bag of salt water.

lima 8y ago

> Like, they'd cook you if they leaked out. Nope, they wouldn't. The standing wave would break down as soon as it left the enclosure. It would still be a potentially harmful amount of radiation, but not like that. And no, 24 GHz is not in common use. It's used for special applications, mostly highly directional tower-to-tower links (I have one sitting on my roof for a high-bandwidth HAM radio link). With 5G, it will be ubiquitous in an unprecedented way. We've already seen plenty of interference with 5 GHz. Of course, there's a lot of fearmongering whenever RF radiation is involved, but there are genuine safety concerns. Source: HAM radio operator

xxpor 8y ago
>Nope, they wouldn't. The standing wave would break down as soon as it left the enclosure. It would still be a potentially harmful amount of radiation, but not like that. Yeah that's a good point >And no, 24 GHz is not in common use. It's used for special applications, mostly highly directional tower-to-tower links (I have one sitting on my roof for a high-bandwidth HAM radio link). That's what I mean by common use. Omnidirectional antennas aren't in common use.
torqueTorrent 8y ago
In school, we used to learn about the RF service technicians returning with stories of dead birds and other such phantasmagoria in and around the sweet spots of the feedhorn, antenna, transmission line, transmitter or other such sensitive areas of high power microwave operations. Professor also admonished us that such technicians must always be infinitely certain that the transmitter is not operational at the time of service.
- adsfqwop 8y ago
  > Professor also admonished us that such technicians must always be infinitely certain that the transmitter is not operational at the time of service. It's a good thing your professor is not a tower technician. No self respecting technician climbs up a tower without knowing his potential exposure. There is a reason both the US FCC and EU ICNIRP have guidelines for human exposure, and if you are a tower technician you wear a personal RF densitometer to ensure you are not exposed above these levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_RF_safety_monitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_RF_safety_monitor "Electromagnetic field densitometers, as used in the cellular phone industry, are referred as "personal RF safety monitors", personal protection monitors (PPM) or RF exposimeters.[1] They form part of the personal protective equipment worn by a person working in areas exposed to radio spectrum radiation." And even with a densitometer, when working on high-powered live equipment, you also wear a protective suit: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NardalertS3_SuitS.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Nardaler... I hope you forward this information to your professor. Industrial RF radiation is not something you want to play around with.
  - cannedslime 8y ago
    I saw a video recently where a guy took a densitometer to a street with 5g in my country, and lets just say that there was plenty of sweet spots where it was well over 500uw/m2. Im no expert or anything, but seems like allowing 4 different vendors to put up 5g infrastructure all over the place might not be such a great idea.
    - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

macawfish 8y ago

Why is it that you can just dismiss the hesitancy of more than a hundred researchers with PhD's in a wide range of relevant disciplines who have made careers out of studying this kind of thing by simply posting a comment saying "it's all nonsense"? https://emfscientist.org/index.php/emf-scientist-appeal https://emfscientist.org/index.php/emf-scientist-appeal ctrl-f for "PhD" shows 126 results on the page. Electromagnetic radiation is used as a signaling medium for countless lifeforms on earth, including the cells and microbes in our own bodies. Imagine if some alien creature decided they wanted to flash relatively bright blue light across the entire surface planet, day and night at frequencies that known to induce epileptic seizures. It'd affect your quality of life and mine. For some people, it'd be devastating. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. I fail to see how a blanket dismissal of peoples concerns, however uninformed many of them may be, counts as "rational"!

xxpor 8y ago
>ctrl-f for "PhD" shows 126 results on the page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Show me one species that uses GHz signalling.
cloakandswagger 8y ago
I can find 100 crackpot scientists as easily as I can find 100 crackpot doctors or mathematicians. Instead of appeals to authority, why can't we work with the facts and evidence that we have already (those overwhelmingly disproving the health hazards of 5G)? "Peoples concerns" equate to the desire to halt all human progress out of some bizarre mix of paranoia and Neo-Luddism.
- throwaway995669 8y ago
  That's an ad hominem attack. It's an inconvenient possibility (not going to call it truth) that our technology might be hurting us. We're addicted to technology the same way smokers are addicted to nicotine. Smoking was at one time considered healthy and promoted by doctors, and now where are we?

cuonic 8y ago

> See all of those microwave antennas on buildings and towers? A lot of them transmit around there. But microwave links are P2P and directional, using narrow beams at a certain height so that humans (or other objects) don't get in the way. That will not be the case with 5G.

dicknuckle 8y ago
microwave is a broad term. WiFi in your house is in the microwave band. microwave CAN be directional and focused, but doesn't have to be.