3 ms·

I agree. I think it exists, but humans are pretty weak at it. I think we can get much better, and it's pretty rare to get results at a useful level, but the "ba

by dosy 7y ago

I agree. I think it exists, but humans are pretty weak at it. I think we can get much better, and it's pretty rare to get results at a useful level, but the "baseline" abilities (parasympathetic activation by being watched, blind sight, remote viewing, to name a few) are accessible to all at a very rudimentary level with some training/awareness, but to get useful consistent results is very rare, and probably requires a lot of training combined with natural talent. So on the "have it and aware of it" long tail you get a lot of psychics basically functioning as highly emphatic counselors with access to some out-of-band knowledge. Maybe at the high-end there are consultants who do work for big oil, corporate, aerospace and government. But for some reason (maybe the topic's history, Stargate, etc) they're secreted away.

simonh 7y ago
How do you distinguish between it existing but being very weak, and it not existing but cognitive bias and random fluctuations in the data occasionally producing a false positive?
- dosy 7y ago
  it's a good point, I'll have to think more about it. have you read paper zero by Bem? what's your thoughts on it? I went looking for some more scholarly evidence, which is quite hard to find, but I am grateful for the opportunity to look more into the existence of studies. A 2018 review that finds cumulative support, published in American Psychologist[10], and here's an intro and write-up by the British Psychological Society [11] A 2011 review of approaches to meta-analysis of psi studies that finds support[12] A 2012 review of evidence and proposal of a quantum mechanical basis that finds support[13] My take: Scholarly evidence is hard to find, but the evidence is there, and acceptance is growing. That claim that psi is impossible and unsupported is the bolder claim that requires strong evidence to be taken seriously. Personally, I believe. And I do not understand the visceral resistance, especially from Americans, who are deeply religious people. I see no contradiciton between faith and psi. We take faith at face value, the feeling of connection to the divine, or belief in the main figures, and in stories, and saints, and miracles that speak of extraordinary powers, or people sharing how they knew their loved one had died, or speaking with deceased relatives. Do you really believe that is all cognitive bias and random fluctuations, personally I mean? Another way of saying things is, we need to be more humble. We don't understand how it can work, but we need to recognize we don't know enough to dismiss it and say it's impossible. What if psi was part of God's plan? And by rejecting it, and the stories of people who tell it, we are turning our backs on one part of divine creation? [10]: https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/viewFile/570/526 https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/vi... [11]: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/07/02/parapsychology-has-been-unfairly-side-lined-claims-a-new-review-of-the-field/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/07/02/parapsychology-has-been... [12]: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00117/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.0011... [13]: https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/viewFile/570/526 https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/vi...

by dosy 7y ago

simonh 7y ago

How do you distinguish between it existing but being very weak, and it not existing but cognitive bias and random fluctuations in the data occasionally producing a false positive?

dosy 7y ago
it's a good point, I'll have to think more about it. have you read paper zero by Bem? what's your thoughts on it? I went looking for some more scholarly evidence, which is quite hard to find, but I am grateful for the opportunity to look more into the existence of studies. A 2018 review that finds cumulative support, published in American Psychologist[10], and here's an intro and write-up by the British Psychological Society [11] A 2011 review of approaches to meta-analysis of psi studies that finds support[12] A 2012 review of evidence and proposal of a quantum mechanical basis that finds support[13] My take: Scholarly evidence is hard to find, but the evidence is there, and acceptance is growing. That claim that psi is impossible and unsupported is the bolder claim that requires strong evidence to be taken seriously. Personally, I believe. And I do not understand the visceral resistance, especially from Americans, who are deeply religious people. I see no contradiciton between faith and psi. We take faith at face value, the feeling of connection to the divine, or belief in the main figures, and in stories, and saints, and miracles that speak of extraordinary powers, or people sharing how they knew their loved one had died, or speaking with deceased relatives. Do you really believe that is all cognitive bias and random fluctuations, personally I mean? Another way of saying things is, we need to be more humble. We don't understand how it can work, but we need to recognize we don't know enough to dismiss it and say it's impossible. What if psi was part of God's plan? And by rejecting it, and the stories of people who tell it, we are turning our backs on one part of divine creation? [10]: https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/viewFile/570/526 https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/vi... [11]: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/07/02/parapsychology-has-been-unfairly-side-lined-claims-a-new-review-of-the-field/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/07/02/parapsychology-has-been... [12]: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00117/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.0011... [13]: https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/viewFile/570/526 https://www.neuroquantology.com/index.php/journal/article/vi...