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That's interesting - I'm working on using cell signal strength as an indicator for live weather features! There's a simple relationship between signal strength

That's interesting - I'm working on using cell signal strength as an indicator for live weather features! There's a simple relationship between signal strength and clearness of weather - light rain has a distortion signal, heavier rain a heavier distortion, etc. I'm betting that when all is said and done, the cell phones will help the weather forecast more than hurt it - but this may take some years if the cell companies are too greedy about it. I'm working on detecting weather using all kinds of phone sensors like barometers and cameras in All Clear if you're interested: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.allclearweather.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.allclearwe... and the open source sensor package: https://github.com/JacobSheehy/AllClearSensorLibrary https://github.com/JacobSheehy/AllClearSensorLibrary

JohnFen 8y ago
But that approach, at best, only tells you about the weather near the ground. That can be useful, but is woefully incomplete. You also need to be able to see weather high in the atmosphere.
- spaceheretostay 8y ago
  Well, signal strength yes - it does have those limits. But pressure data from the barometers can describe some higher altitude conditions (if you can map pressure at the surface over a large geography with decent density, you can infer metrics about the higher atmosphere). And I do agree that other instruments are required for a complete picture of the weather, not just phones! But a remarkable amount can be done from phones. GPS attenuation for example, can also be read from some Android phones and can inform about high-altitude conditions.
  - lgeorget 8y ago
    But surely you miss the anomalies that might exist high in the atmosphere and which are actually responsible for the violent meteorological events (such as temperature inversions).
    - spaceheretostay 8y ago
      Definitely phones can't replace all weather satellites and things - not yet anyway! But for many severe weather events that actively harm property and life, such as severe thunderstorms, can be aided with smartphone sensors. For example, barometers in phones can detect initiation of rapid convection that may lead to severe thunderstorms. In many places this rapid convection may start where there are no weather stations, and cannot (yet?) be detected by satellite.
      - delfinom 8y ago
        >! But for many severe weather events that actively harm property and life, Fuck planes amirite?
        spaceheretostay 8y ago
        No? I am not saying those weather events don't exist - I am saying that there is a very large class of weather events that happen with high frequency, and affect life on the ground significantly, and those include severe thunderstorms that could have early detection through smartphones. Planes and aviation could have major assistance in planning and adjusting to weather events if a phone network were actively in use as well. Last second info re: waiting for planes to take off due to weather delays is one of my primary frustrations. It hurts a lot of people and companies to have last-second changes to forecasts and I would like to reduce that pain point by providing further advance notice of likelihood of severe weather in an area. This can be done (partially) with phone sensors.
      - lgeorget 8y ago
        I see. It's definitely complementary, indeed.
  - jrochkind1 8y ago
    And these speculations lead you to be confident that these techniques will end _better_ than current satellite-based techniques? Truly we live in the best of all possible worlds.
    - spaceheretostay 8y ago
      I think you misunderstand me - I do not intend to express any confidence that phones will end up better than satellites if used exclusively! I am saying that working in tandem, all technology to measure and study the atmosphere should be used to better understand the weather. Phones together with satellites and radars and weather stations will produce a better weather forecast experience than we have today, without using phones. Thanks for the Candide reference, that is one of my favourite books, but I do not think it really applies to my optimism about weather forecasting technology into the future. We currently live in the worst of worlds when it comes to stability of plans for improvements into our weather infrastructure (at least in the US).
      - jrochkind1 8y ago
        > Phones together with satellites and radars and weather stations will produce a better weather forecast experience than we have today, without using phones. That will surely depend on how much the satellites sensing ability is degraded, no? What makes you so sure, other than a commitment to optimism?
- xd1936 8y ago
  And radar data and satellite fills some of that need. We generally have a lot better idea what's happening in the middle atmosphere than we do close to the ground.
RivieraKid 8y ago
How does it convert signal strength to clearness of weather, I assume you have a map of base signal strength in clear weather? How accurate it is compared to a weather radar?
- spaceheretostay 8y ago
  I should defer to the experts here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8070024 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8070024 The part I'm working on currently is a privacy-aware implementation of recording useful signal strength from user's phones, that could be used for this.
samstave 8y ago
Is there a map of Cell Strength Detectors all over? (actual devices, not a predictive map)? I think that its really interesting that water is literally the reason why life exists on this planet. Basically, water has shielded life from radiation from space, (in addition to the magnetosphere, etc) -- but life was able to evolve in the protective layer of water. So, I just find the fact that propagating radiation measurement through water, such as you describe, and as it relates to the potential health concerns of Humans creating a new, fairly powerful and ubiquitous source of radiation (5G) to be something we really need to pay attention to.

JohnFen 8y ago

But that approach, at best, only tells you about the weather near the ground. That can be useful, but is woefully incomplete. You also need to be able to see weather high in the atmosphere.

spaceheretostay 8y ago
Well, signal strength yes - it does have those limits. But pressure data from the barometers can describe some higher altitude conditions (if you can map pressure at the surface over a large geography with decent density, you can infer metrics about the higher atmosphere). And I do agree that other instruments are required for a complete picture of the weather, not just phones! But a remarkable amount can be done from phones. GPS attenuation for example, can also be read from some Android phones and can inform about high-altitude conditions.
- lgeorget 8y ago
  But surely you miss the anomalies that might exist high in the atmosphere and which are actually responsible for the violent meteorological events (such as temperature inversions).
  - spaceheretostay 8y ago
    Definitely phones can't replace all weather satellites and things - not yet anyway! But for many severe weather events that actively harm property and life, such as severe thunderstorms, can be aided with smartphone sensors. For example, barometers in phones can detect initiation of rapid convection that may lead to severe thunderstorms. In many places this rapid convection may start where there are no weather stations, and cannot (yet?) be detected by satellite.
    - delfinom 8y ago
      >! But for many severe weather events that actively harm property and life, Fuck planes amirite?
      - spaceheretostay 8y ago
        No? I am not saying those weather events don't exist - I am saying that there is a very large class of weather events that happen with high frequency, and affect life on the ground significantly, and those include severe thunderstorms that could have early detection through smartphones. Planes and aviation could have major assistance in planning and adjusting to weather events if a phone network were actively in use as well. Last second info re: waiting for planes to take off due to weather delays is one of my primary frustrations. It hurts a lot of people and companies to have last-second changes to forecasts and I would like to reduce that pain point by providing further advance notice of likelihood of severe weather in an area. This can be done (partially) with phone sensors.
    - lgeorget 8y ago
      I see. It's definitely complementary, indeed.
- jrochkind1 8y ago
  And these speculations lead you to be confident that these techniques will end _better_ than current satellite-based techniques? Truly we live in the best of all possible worlds.
  - spaceheretostay 8y ago
    I think you misunderstand me - I do not intend to express any confidence that phones will end up better than satellites if used exclusively! I am saying that working in tandem, all technology to measure and study the atmosphere should be used to better understand the weather. Phones together with satellites and radars and weather stations will produce a better weather forecast experience than we have today, without using phones. Thanks for the Candide reference, that is one of my favourite books, but I do not think it really applies to my optimism about weather forecasting technology into the future. We currently live in the worst of worlds when it comes to stability of plans for improvements into our weather infrastructure (at least in the US).
    - jrochkind1 8y ago
      > Phones together with satellites and radars and weather stations will produce a better weather forecast experience than we have today, without using phones. That will surely depend on how much the satellites sensing ability is degraded, no? What makes you so sure, other than a commitment to optimism?
xd1936 8y ago
And radar data and satellite fills some of that need. We generally have a lot better idea what's happening in the middle atmosphere than we do close to the ground.

RivieraKid 8y ago

How does it convert signal strength to clearness of weather, I assume you have a map of base signal strength in clear weather? How accurate it is compared to a weather radar?

spaceheretostay 8y ago
I should defer to the experts here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8070024 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8070024 The part I'm working on currently is a privacy-aware implementation of recording useful signal strength from user's phones, that could be used for this.

samstave 8y ago

Is there a map of Cell Strength Detectors all over? (actual devices, not a predictive map)? I think that its really interesting that water is literally the reason why life exists on this planet. Basically, water has shielded life from radiation from space, (in addition to the magnetosphere, etc) -- but life was able to evolve in the protective layer of water. So, I just find the fact that propagating radiation measurement through water, such as you describe, and as it relates to the potential health concerns of Humans creating a new, fairly powerful and ubiquitous source of radiation (5G) to be something we really need to pay attention to.