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If someone from the media is reading along here: it would be nice to mention every now and again that the "grumpy old progress hating nerds" have a pretty good

If someone from the media is reading along here: it would be nice to mention every now and again that the "grumpy old progress hating nerds" have a pretty good track record at condemning fb/google. This entire branch of news that I would maybe call "dystopia gawking" just provokes a huge "told you so" in parts of the tech community, and that would be a good thing to keep in mind during the next gold rush.

AlexandrB 8y ago
I wonder why people were so unwilling to accept Zuckerberg's own sentiment ("dumb fucks") about their data for years. It seems like that's basically the attitude at Facebook from the top down. Everything else is PR spin.
- dymk 8y ago
  “Dumb fucks” is more overplayed than “Google is going to shut down <service>”. It’s FUD. Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook.
  - AlexandrB 8y ago
    > Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. How can you claim that in the context of the revelations from this article? Seems like the company functions exactly like we're all "dumb fucks". And why do you think his attitude would change to be more egalitarian as his success and power increased? Edit: > I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook. It's not a meme. It's the founder and CEO of a company that holds the private data of >2B users telling us exactly how he feels about his users' expectations of privacy. Since then Facebook has only experienced growth and success. What event in Mark Zuckerberg's professional life could have significantly challenged this attitude do you think? It's been all positive feedback loops until recently.
    - renaudg 8y ago
      >It's the founder and CEO of a company that holds the private data of >2B users telling us exactly how he feels about his users' expectations of privacy. No. It's a (literal) teenager thinking aloud, making comments in jest to a friend about his student project becoming viral and getting hundreds of users, to his own amazement. He seems to be noting how little people seem to care for their privacy. And that's about it. There's much to say against Facebook these days, but it's a preposterous thing to say these comments accurately reflect the current views of their leadership at a completely different scale. What are you on the record saying when you were 19 ?
      - okmokmz 8y ago
        Ah look, another facebook/ex-facebook employee. Interesting how on this site the only people that consistently defend facebook are people who have or are financially benefiting from it, and yet they never mention this in their comments
  - Zelphyr 8y ago
    What has Zuckerberg done since it was a tiny website to demonstrate his views have changed? I have yet to see anything. In fact, to my mind he has billions of dollars of revenue that reinforce that view.
    - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
      The whole business model of Facebook is to collect personal data and sell it for profit. It should surprise no one that they are doing that. Furthermore, it shouldn't surprise Americans that there are zero regulations protecting their non-health related data. Free stuff on the internet doesn't run on fairy dust.
      - dwb 8y ago
        Something doesn't have to be surprising for people to legitimately protest against it. The existence of Facebook isn't a result of some democratic consensus, it's some dude's get-rich scheme that's happened to have popped off.
        kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
        The consensus was set by electing politicians who don't work for the common good. Facebook is nothing new. Our privacy has been systematically degraded by the data broker industry which has existed since before ARPANET. Congress protects that industry and Facebook reaps those benefits.
        okmokmz 8y ago
        So what exactly is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that none of us should care about privacy or the actions of Facebook because we've failed to elect appropriate politicians or failed to get the general public to understand what Facebook is doing? The only way to get people to start thinking about these problems and implementing change is by publicizing stories like this. Seems like a very defeatist and unproductive attitude to just say "this is how it is" and leave it at that as your comments seem to imply
  - ionised 8y ago
    It's still a meme because it is clearly still how Zuckerberg thinks. His words and actions are those of someone who gives zero fucks about his user base as long as he gets to continue exploiting their private information.
  - okmokmz 8y ago
    It has been perfectly representative of how the company functions. Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard for anything other than profits and getting people addicted to their apps edit1: Guess I made some facebook engineers upset as I'm being downvoted. Looks like dymk is likely a facebook engineer, as his comment history has lots of comments seemingly supporting facebook, data collection, and ads, or at the very least arguing against those that oppose them. Reframe it however you want, Zuckerberg, Facebook, and its engineers are immoral and not concerned with the privacy or security of anyone's data. The people that knowingly continue to work their are complicit in the net negative impact facebook has on society edit2: dymk is no longer a software engineer at facebook, but he was until early this year
    - throwsdddddd 8y ago
      This is a continuing problem on this platform. Facebook engineers disguising themselves as regular joe defending Facebook, when they have a personal interest. Silently downvoting or flagging comments. This isn’t the first time someone has mentioned this problem. They should be upfront about it and say they are a Facebook engineer and why they disagree.
    - netsharc 8y ago
      > Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard. I doubt humans are that simplistic, but at the end of the day, it seems they all have a price, and for that price they can invent lies so they can sleep at night thinking they're decent people. And until this headline I thought they (and Zuck in particular) still had a code of honor when they say they won't abuse the trust their users had, but, well, apparenly that also has a price.
      - okmokmz 8y ago
        Why until this headline? Stories like this about Facebook and Zuck have been coming out for years
  - sushisushisushi 8y ago
    It's not FUD if it's direct evidence that provides an accurate representation of how he thinks and how he views his product (which it is). Your mention of FUD is just FUD. It's a FUDception.
  - jlarocco 8y ago
    The "dumb fucks" quote is basically Facebook's business model. "Here's all this data we have about people, pay us money and we'll help you exploit it."
  - kerng 8y ago
    I don't think its overplayed, rather re-emphasized over the years using business terms instead though.
  - rhizome 8y ago
    It started as "dumb fucks" and has merely been reworded over the years into longer and longer policy documents and press releases.
- icebraining 8y ago
  I am not, and have never been, a user of Facebook. But I have to say, that statement means nothing. Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. It's all he has done since that reveals that he is actually willing.
  - SquishyPanda23 8y ago
    > but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. What about the part of the statement that says ZUCK: yea so if you ever need info about anyone at harvard ZUCK: just ask ZUCK: i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses, sns Or the fact that he did use user data in the way he suggested in the quote? https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-into-the-harvard-crimson-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-i...
  - okmokmz 8y ago
    >but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them He had already taken advantage of them and collected their data at that point...
  - rhizome 8y ago
    Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. He was mocking the users who had already made the poor choice of letting him take advantage of them.
- renaudg 8y ago
  What were you saying when you were 19 ?

AlexandrB 8y ago

I wonder why people were so unwilling to accept Zuckerberg's own sentiment ("dumb fucks") about their data for years. It seems like that's basically the attitude at Facebook from the top down. Everything else is PR spin.

dymk 8y ago
“Dumb fucks” is more overplayed than “Google is going to shut down <service>”. It’s FUD. Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook.
- AlexandrB 8y ago
  > Zuckerberg said that when his tiny website was open to his classmates and a few others, and hasn’t been representative of how the company functions. How can you claim that in the context of the revelations from this article? Seems like the company functions exactly like we're all "dumb fucks". And why do you think his attitude would change to be more egalitarian as his success and power increased? Edit: > I seriously cant believe that it’s still a meme people use to justify their hate for Facebook. It's not a meme. It's the founder and CEO of a company that holds the private data of >2B users telling us exactly how he feels about his users' expectations of privacy. Since then Facebook has only experienced growth and success. What event in Mark Zuckerberg's professional life could have significantly challenged this attitude do you think? It's been all positive feedback loops until recently.
  - renaudg 8y ago
    >It's the founder and CEO of a company that holds the private data of >2B users telling us exactly how he feels about his users' expectations of privacy. No. It's a (literal) teenager thinking aloud, making comments in jest to a friend about his student project becoming viral and getting hundreds of users, to his own amazement. He seems to be noting how little people seem to care for their privacy. And that's about it. There's much to say against Facebook these days, but it's a preposterous thing to say these comments accurately reflect the current views of their leadership at a completely different scale. What are you on the record saying when you were 19 ?
    - okmokmz 8y ago
      Ah look, another facebook/ex-facebook employee. Interesting how on this site the only people that consistently defend facebook are people who have or are financially benefiting from it, and yet they never mention this in their comments
- Zelphyr 8y ago
  What has Zuckerberg done since it was a tiny website to demonstrate his views have changed? I have yet to see anything. In fact, to my mind he has billions of dollars of revenue that reinforce that view.
  - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
    The whole business model of Facebook is to collect personal data and sell it for profit. It should surprise no one that they are doing that. Furthermore, it shouldn't surprise Americans that there are zero regulations protecting their non-health related data. Free stuff on the internet doesn't run on fairy dust.
    - dwb 8y ago
      Something doesn't have to be surprising for people to legitimately protest against it. The existence of Facebook isn't a result of some democratic consensus, it's some dude's get-rich scheme that's happened to have popped off.
      - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
        The consensus was set by electing politicians who don't work for the common good. Facebook is nothing new. Our privacy has been systematically degraded by the data broker industry which has existed since before ARPANET. Congress protects that industry and Facebook reaps those benefits.
        okmokmz 8y ago
        So what exactly is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that none of us should care about privacy or the actions of Facebook because we've failed to elect appropriate politicians or failed to get the general public to understand what Facebook is doing? The only way to get people to start thinking about these problems and implementing change is by publicizing stories like this. Seems like a very defeatist and unproductive attitude to just say "this is how it is" and leave it at that as your comments seem to imply
- ionised 8y ago
  It's still a meme because it is clearly still how Zuckerberg thinks. His words and actions are those of someone who gives zero fucks about his user base as long as he gets to continue exploiting their private information.
- okmokmz 8y ago
  It has been perfectly representative of how the company functions. Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard for anything other than profits and getting people addicted to their apps edit1: Guess I made some facebook engineers upset as I'm being downvoted. Looks like dymk is likely a facebook engineer, as his comment history has lots of comments seemingly supporting facebook, data collection, and ads, or at the very least arguing against those that oppose them. Reframe it however you want, Zuckerberg, Facebook, and its engineers are immoral and not concerned with the privacy or security of anyone's data. The people that knowingly continue to work their are complicit in the net negative impact facebook has on society edit2: dymk is no longer a software engineer at facebook, but he was until early this year
  - throwsdddddd 8y ago
    This is a continuing problem on this platform. Facebook engineers disguising themselves as regular joe defending Facebook, when they have a personal interest. Silently downvoting or flagging comments. This isn’t the first time someone has mentioned this problem. They should be upfront about it and say they are a Facebook engineer and why they disagree.
  - netsharc 8y ago
    > Collecting and monetizing data from the "dumb fucks" with little to no regard. I doubt humans are that simplistic, but at the end of the day, it seems they all have a price, and for that price they can invent lies so they can sleep at night thinking they're decent people. And until this headline I thought they (and Zuck in particular) still had a code of honor when they say they won't abuse the trust their users had, but, well, apparenly that also has a price.
    - okmokmz 8y ago
      Why until this headline? Stories like this about Facebook and Zuck have been coming out for years
- sushisushisushi 8y ago
  It's not FUD if it's direct evidence that provides an accurate representation of how he thinks and how he views his product (which it is). Your mention of FUD is just FUD. It's a FUDception.
- jlarocco 8y ago
  The "dumb fucks" quote is basically Facebook's business model. "Here's all this data we have about people, pay us money and we'll help you exploit it."
- kerng 8y ago
  I don't think its overplayed, rather re-emphasized over the years using business terms instead though.
- rhizome 8y ago
  It started as "dumb fucks" and has merely been reworded over the years into longer and longer policy documents and press releases.
icebraining 8y ago
I am not, and have never been, a user of Facebook. But I have to say, that statement means nothing. Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. It's all he has done since that reveals that he is actually willing.
- SquishyPanda23 8y ago
  > but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. What about the part of the statement that says ZUCK: yea so if you ever need info about anyone at harvard ZUCK: just ask ZUCK: i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses, sns Or the fact that he did use user data in the way he suggested in the quote? https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-into-the-harvard-crimson-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-i...
- okmokmz 8y ago
  >but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them He had already taken advantage of them and collected their data at that point...
- rhizome 8y ago
  Mocking people for their poor choices may be in poor taste, or unfair, but it does not mean one is willing to take advantage of them. He was mocking the users who had already made the poor choice of letting him take advantage of them.
renaudg 8y ago
What were you saying when you were 19 ?