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There's a risk we miss the point point in this discussion (as every time the topic comes up). Even here on HN there are those who don't mind or even actively w

There's a risk we miss the point point in this discussion (as every time the topic comes up). Even here on HN there are those who don't mind or even actively want "personalised" ads. We'd assume the community here is aware of the wider risks of surveillance or "social manipulation platforms". The real issue is choice. I personally choose privacy over personalisation. I also understand that businesses need revenue - so I pay for e.g. email rather than using an ad-supported service. My issue is that I can't choose privacy. I've taken reasonable steps to make it difficult for Google, Facebook at al (ad blockers, pihole, etc.). But I'm realistic to know it's an up hill struggle. I've never had a Facebook account (nor instagram/whatsapp) but I know I'll exist as a shadow profile. Whether ads are good or bad; whether they're personalised or not, and if so how, isn't the fundamental issue. I've no issue with those that do want personalisation (assuming they understand the consequences obviously). The issue is that I can't choose. And everything G/FB/etc are doing is focused on building ever more walled gardens, so it becomes ever more difficult to exist outside them.

manigandham 8y ago
You can choose by resetting your advertising ID.
- spinningslate 8y ago
  Partially. Except (1) that only works on platforms that support it and(2) the advertising platforms will just work around it anyway.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    1) The problem is that Apple doesn't allow it to be used for the web where it could help privacy there too by removing cookies. 2) Apps are reviewed, there are no workarounds and there is no need to when there is a sanctioned API that does exactly what is necessary.
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
You can't choose because your choice is expensive for the business. The famous saying by Wanamaker is exactly about that: you can waste less money by targeting people potentially interesting in the ads. This is the strength of Google, FB and the rest: they can funnel the money where they're more likely to generate more money and easily convince the accounts they're more efficient than indiscriminate advertising via TV and other channels where you can't profile the customer. You, a disobedient citizen, are just an obstacle in this scheme. This is one big reason any revolution in this area is extremely unlikely to happen.
- spinningslate 8y ago
  Very well put, if depressingly so! > easily convince the accounts they're more efficient than indiscriminate advertising via TV and other channels where you can't profile the customer Does anyone know of any studies here? That is: is there demonstrably better return on "personalised" ads vs. contextualised? I don't expect Google/Facebook would publish anything other than support for the former. I'd love to think there was some evidence to suggest they're selling snake oil. That may be wishful thinking, but worth asking anyway.

manigandham 8y ago

You can choose by resetting your advertising ID.

spinningslate 8y ago
Partially. Except (1) that only works on platforms that support it and(2) the advertising platforms will just work around it anyway.
- manigandham 8y ago
  1) The problem is that Apple doesn't allow it to be used for the web where it could help privacy there too by removing cookies. 2) Apps are reviewed, there are no workarounds and there is no need to when there is a sanctioned API that does exactly what is necessary.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

You can't choose because your choice is expensive for the business. The famous saying by Wanamaker is exactly about that: you can waste less money by targeting people potentially interesting in the ads. This is the strength of Google, FB and the rest: they can funnel the money where they're more likely to generate more money and easily convince the accounts they're more efficient than indiscriminate advertising via TV and other channels where you can't profile the customer. You, a disobedient citizen, are just an obstacle in this scheme. This is one big reason any revolution in this area is extremely unlikely to happen.

spinningslate 8y ago
Very well put, if depressingly so! > easily convince the accounts they're more efficient than indiscriminate advertising via TV and other channels where you can't profile the customer Does anyone know of any studies here? That is: is there demonstrably better return on "personalised" ads vs. contextualised? I don't expect Google/Facebook would publish anything other than support for the former. I'd love to think there was some evidence to suggest they're selling snake oil. That may be wishful thinking, but worth asking anyway.