4 ms·

It's odd that if Muslims want to separate their boys and girls from a young age we think it is horrible and abusive. But if Christians or Jews do the exact same

It's odd that if Muslims want to separate their boys and girls from a young age we think it is horrible and abusive. But if Christians or Jews do the exact same thing, we are fine with it because we must respect their traditions.

dalbasal 8y ago
Did you read the article? It's about not being fine with it.
- darylfritz 8y ago
  I feel like bjourne is referring to the hypocracy that society commonly accepts the Jewish practice, whereas the Muslim practice is generally rejected. I don't think bjourne is suggesting that Deborah accepts the practice.
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  - dalbasal 8y ago
    Where is the example of "society commonly accepting the Jewish practice?" Not hn society, as you can see in the thread. Not Jewish society, as you can see in the article. In any case, this is not a Jewish practice. The practice in this article is specific to certain hasidic sects, within the haredi minority... And very few outside of the haredi minority are accepting of sexism within the community. It's a big point of conflict.
    - bjourne 8y ago
      I didn't say it was a "Jewish practice" it was darylfritz who misunderstood. The practice is common in the Hasidic minority as a result of society accepting people shoveling religious dogma down their children's throats. Except for Muslims having their girls wear veils which "society" has a problem with. But society shouldn't be accepting religious indoctrination of children from anyone.
      - dalbasal 8y ago
        Which society are you talking about?
        bjourne 8y ago
        Any society allowing parents to put their children in religious schools.
    - darylfritz 8y ago
      My use of the phrase "Jewish Practice" was taken from the article. I didn't mean anything additional by it.
jhanschoo 8y ago
Do we, really? If we learned that such a practice was widespread in a Christian or Jewish community, it would count disfavorably in the esteem most of us have of them, and this surely must be the case for us who have read about the bus segregation in the article. In addition, poor opinion we have of certain Muslim countries with gender segregation is due not only to this but also of many other rights violations in the news. If one should learn of such a practice in a community in the US, we'd feel that they should nevertheless share many values with us as when compared to a Muslim community in the US, and that sharing more values than a community in a Muslim country; the disparity between our esteem toward Jewish communities and Muslim communities in the US coming from their greater historical presence in the US. I shall not comment on whether such is warranted. And since I had only recently of it, gender segregation is quite alive in significantly many Israel Jewish communities.
- bjourne 8y ago
  But such practice is widespread in some Christian and Jewish sects! I'm not making stuff up. > the disparity between our esteem toward Jewish communities and Muslim communities in the US coming from their greater historical presence in the US. I shall not comment on whether such is warranted. No, perhaps you should not comment on it. Because defending the disparity is defending racism. Segregating children by gender from a young age is child abuse no matter what the religion is. That we accept Christians and Jews doing it to their children but not Muslims is pure hypocrisy.
  - jhanschoo 8y ago
    > But such practice is widespread in some Christian and Jewish sects! I'm not making stuff up. I agree, and I think it counts against them to the rest of us. For example, many of us do not think highly at all about cultish Christian sects. > Because defending the disparity is defending racism. Indeed. What I'm trying to do here is model how the notion can come about, simply by being ignorant and not by any directed racist thought against any one group. That is, even if the only discrimination we receive from our environment about the various communities were our frequency of interaction with these respective due to proximity and integration, we are inclined to this notion. The post I was responding to was in general attitudes for the general population; and I assume that people are generally ignorant about religious communities in their own country and in other countries. Hence how this ignorance leads reasonably to a notion. In addition, I don't think it is necessarily racist to have such an opinion, especially if one also understands that it is likely to be horribly misinformed and comes from ignorance. It becomes racist only if you choose to act on the notion, or communicate it without also communicating that the opinion comes from ignorance. Rather, the responsible thing to do is to perform adequate due diligence to form an educated opinion on it once your opinion on the matter becomes of importance to anything.

dalbasal 8y ago

Did you read the article? It's about not being fine with it.

darylfritz 8y ago
I feel like bjourne is referring to the hypocracy that society commonly accepts the Jewish practice, whereas the Muslim practice is generally rejected. I don't think bjourne is suggesting that Deborah accepts the practice.
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- dalbasal 8y ago
  Where is the example of "society commonly accepting the Jewish practice?" Not hn society, as you can see in the thread. Not Jewish society, as you can see in the article. In any case, this is not a Jewish practice. The practice in this article is specific to certain hasidic sects, within the haredi minority... And very few outside of the haredi minority are accepting of sexism within the community. It's a big point of conflict.
  - bjourne 8y ago
    I didn't say it was a "Jewish practice" it was darylfritz who misunderstood. The practice is common in the Hasidic minority as a result of society accepting people shoveling religious dogma down their children's throats. Except for Muslims having their girls wear veils which "society" has a problem with. But society shouldn't be accepting religious indoctrination of children from anyone.
    - dalbasal 8y ago
      Which society are you talking about?
      - bjourne 8y ago
        Any society allowing parents to put their children in religious schools.
  - darylfritz 8y ago
    My use of the phrase "Jewish Practice" was taken from the article. I didn't mean anything additional by it.

jhanschoo 8y ago

Do we, really? If we learned that such a practice was widespread in a Christian or Jewish community, it would count disfavorably in the esteem most of us have of them, and this surely must be the case for us who have read about the bus segregation in the article. In addition, poor opinion we have of certain Muslim countries with gender segregation is due not only to this but also of many other rights violations in the news. If one should learn of such a practice in a community in the US, we'd feel that they should nevertheless share many values with us as when compared to a Muslim community in the US, and that sharing more values than a community in a Muslim country; the disparity between our esteem toward Jewish communities and Muslim communities in the US coming from their greater historical presence in the US. I shall not comment on whether such is warranted. And since I had only recently of it, gender segregation is quite alive in significantly many Israel Jewish communities.

bjourne 8y ago
But such practice is widespread in some Christian and Jewish sects! I'm not making stuff up. > the disparity between our esteem toward Jewish communities and Muslim communities in the US coming from their greater historical presence in the US. I shall not comment on whether such is warranted. No, perhaps you should not comment on it. Because defending the disparity is defending racism. Segregating children by gender from a young age is child abuse no matter what the religion is. That we accept Christians and Jews doing it to their children but not Muslims is pure hypocrisy.
- jhanschoo 8y ago
  > But such practice is widespread in some Christian and Jewish sects! I'm not making stuff up. I agree, and I think it counts against them to the rest of us. For example, many of us do not think highly at all about cultish Christian sects. > Because defending the disparity is defending racism. Indeed. What I'm trying to do here is model how the notion can come about, simply by being ignorant and not by any directed racist thought against any one group. That is, even if the only discrimination we receive from our environment about the various communities were our frequency of interaction with these respective due to proximity and integration, we are inclined to this notion. The post I was responding to was in general attitudes for the general population; and I assume that people are generally ignorant about religious communities in their own country and in other countries. Hence how this ignorance leads reasonably to a notion. In addition, I don't think it is necessarily racist to have such an opinion, especially if one also understands that it is likely to be horribly misinformed and comes from ignorance. It becomes racist only if you choose to act on the notion, or communicate it without also communicating that the opinion comes from ignorance. Rather, the responsible thing to do is to perform adequate due diligence to form an educated opinion on it once your opinion on the matter becomes of importance to anything.