4 ms·

> my proposal is segmenting hardware and software products between the two categories of "general purpose, trusted computing" and "safe for shared hosting." If

> my proposal is segmenting hardware and software products between the two categories of "general purpose, trusted computing" and "safe for shared hosting." If a normal user is using a web browser and one tab has their bank information, and the other has a suspect website, then you have to be concerned about sharing resources and security.

gmueckl 8y ago
Make these web pages run on a crappy VM. Yank most of the JS bloat and the JIT compilers out and you're good. Maybe insert arbitrary nondeterministic delays into the interpreter as well for good measure. Compared to sacrificing total desktop performance, this is a perfect tradeoff.
xxs 8y ago
I'd prefer to see 'trusted' sites being to use javascript only. Heck, even use javascript only after log in. Alternatively, run them at an isolated context with no websockets, limited access to timing (second or two precision - a lot sampling needed), limited CPU and memory utilization, no sound, no GPU acceleration [likely another large side channel surface], etc. Ahh yeah and delete all their cookies while we are at. Javascript has turned to a total bloat
- bo1024 8y ago
  Running somebody else's code is putting a ton of trust in them. Maybe someday we'll have great sandboxing, but for now, it makes no sense to let random sketchy origins to just run whatever code they please on your device.
Crinus 8y ago
This is on the browser to handle though and only confined on the browser's process(es), it doesn't need to affect the entire OS.
- soraminazuki 8y ago
  But things like scheduling and resource sharing do affect the entire OS.
  - Crinus 8y ago
    Yes, so? Unless i'm misunderstanding what you are talking about, these are exposed to (untrusted) web pages through the web browser, the pages do not have a means of accessing it directly. So the browser can take measures of avoiding issues (e.g. decreasing the exposed timing resolution, like browsers now do). Then you can give your (trusted) native applications all the available resources without artificial constraints. (of course this assumes you see most native applications as trusted, but personally i see any alternative as too Orwellian to get behind)

gmueckl 8y ago

Make these web pages run on a crappy VM. Yank most of the JS bloat and the JIT compilers out and you're good. Maybe insert arbitrary nondeterministic delays into the interpreter as well for good measure. Compared to sacrificing total desktop performance, this is a perfect tradeoff.

xxs 8y ago

I'd prefer to see 'trusted' sites being to use javascript only. Heck, even use javascript only after log in. Alternatively, run them at an isolated context with no websockets, limited access to timing (second or two precision - a lot sampling needed), limited CPU and memory utilization, no sound, no GPU acceleration [likely another large side channel surface], etc. Ahh yeah and delete all their cookies while we are at. Javascript has turned to a total bloat

bo1024 8y ago
Running somebody else's code is putting a ton of trust in them. Maybe someday we'll have great sandboxing, but for now, it makes no sense to let random sketchy origins to just run whatever code they please on your device.

Crinus 8y ago

This is on the browser to handle though and only confined on the browser's process(es), it doesn't need to affect the entire OS.

soraminazuki 8y ago
But things like scheduling and resource sharing do affect the entire OS.
- Crinus 8y ago
  Yes, so? Unless i'm misunderstanding what you are talking about, these are exposed to (untrusted) web pages through the web browser, the pages do not have a means of accessing it directly. So the browser can take measures of avoiding issues (e.g. decreasing the exposed timing resolution, like browsers now do). Then you can give your (trusted) native applications all the available resources without artificial constraints. (of course this assumes you see most native applications as trusted, but personally i see any alternative as too Orwellian to get behind)