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As a former owner of 2 TDI dirty diesels that lost money on the resale due to these issues I personally feel VW has not done enough to make it right with the cu

by sanguy 8y ago

As a former owner of 2 TDI dirty diesels that lost money on the resale due to these issues I personally feel VW has not done enough to make it right with the customers impacted. Prior to the two diesel's I had owned 4 other Audi's over 15 years. I test drove a 3.0L TDI and listened to the "green" propaganda (remember their across NA clean diesel tour?) and that is what was the decision makers to purchase. I then find out the vehicle was not nearly as green as stated; and actually worse than a gasoline version. As the father of two young kids and someone who worries about how we treat our planet this was concerning to me. So I immediately got the "fix" performed when approved. I could not sell the vehicle while a "fix" was pending. That fix that VW came up with has dropped heavy city (stop and go) driving from >24 mpg to under 10! Also 4 mpg on the highway was lost; as well as making the vehicle drive sluggish and lethargic compared to "dirty days". My vehicles plummeted from >$30K resale value to being under $15K within 6 months after the "fix" was rolled out. VW paid me $6K in restitution. Through the entire process VW, who is guilty, was in the power position dictating what they would and would not to solve the problem. It was not handled well. They got off very easy. I now hope the entire management team involved gets significant criminal charges. It was massive in scope. It impacted our planet negatively. I also feel they should be banned, personally, from ever being in a position to make such decisions again. I for one will never purchase another vehicle from VW/Audi group. They do not stand behind their products nor look after customers. What they did was a very serious crime and they can never be trusted again.

twblalock 8y ago
I know several people who had diesel VWs and let VW buy them back for almost the same price they paid for them two years earlier. Why didn't you do that? VW did a bad thing, but the owners did not get screwed. In fact, the non-owners got screwed worse because we had to breathe the same fumes as the owners but we didn't get a free car for two years.
- sgift 8y ago
  It depends on the country they are in. They were not so generous here in Germany, cause our government still protects VW. Prosecutors have none of it, but that takes time and so far they don't really feel the heat.
  - joecool1029 8y ago
    I would assume it also depends on the emissions and fuel regulations in the country. The US has always had shitty diesel fuel at the pumps and it wasn't until around 10 years ago that you ultra-low sulfur diesel was ubiquitous everywhere. The 500ppm low sulfur diesel would screw up the catalysts. So the US answer was always to de-tune the vehicles, Germany had better configurations due to what I assume were higher fuel quality standards and less stringent emissions. Oh, I found a source confirming my suspicion: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/587331/IPOL_STU(2016)587331_EN.pdf http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/58733... check page 16 for an overview.
- joecool1029 8y ago
  >I know several people who had diesel VWs and let VW buy them back for almost the same price they paid for them two years earlier. Why didn't you do that? Parent made the wrong choices. I can tell because they talked about using the car in the city. It's the wrong vehicle for city driving. FWIW I bought a 2012 VW Golf TDI for around $25k out the door. Drove almost 200k mi before it was bought back, received $18.5k or so back on it from VW, Bosch payments and the initial 'we're sorry package'. It was my second TDI after a 98 Jetta TDI. There was simply no other competition on the market for efficient long distance highway travel, which is what I used it for... and for people that asked me about its mileage, I would tell them... it only makes sense if you drive highways for at least a half hour each day. I was personally responsible for 2 Golf TDI's, a Passat TDI, and a A3 TDI being purchased by friends and family. All but one were bought back for values that were over market. The one that wasn't was because he sold it before the scandal broke. So no, I don't understand the butthurt on lost value. It lost value because that's what vehicles do after a few years (or even after you drive them off the lot), not because of the scandal. You can speculate all you want, but the fact was once the buyback happened you had three options to replace the car left in the market segment. 1. A pre-2007 Benz or VW that overnight became impossible to purchase 2. A 2016 'fixed' TDI that had all the issues of the DPF. 3. One of the few Chevy Cruze diesels that were ludicrously overpriced and had poor option choice (no hatchback and standard trans: did you not want to capture some of VW's market?) I would still very much expect that even in their dirty state, TDI's put out far less carbon emissions than gas vehicles do. NOX emissions, while a problem are less of a concern for long distance rural trips. Had I done it in a gas car I'm quite certain the longterm effect would be worse, even moreso if I flew in a jet for those trips. And yeah, absolutely charge the people involved for covering up the testing. They are responsible not just for the pollution they caused while the cars were produced, but for the future pollution caused by the void of more efficient small vehicles that electric isn't ready to fill yet (outside of burbs). I'm pro electric, it just wouldn't work for my use case. For example, I tell people with a 5mi commute to a train station to buy old Nissan Leafs, because it's ideal for their use case. It doesn't make sense owning a diesel for that because they soot up and have issues when they aren't run enough.
- sanguy 8y ago
  Only Gen-1 cars had the buy-back as they could not be fixed with software. Gen-2 cars they came up with a way to reprogram them to get to pass; but as I mentioned it comes with a huge impact of mileage and performance. Us gen-2 owners got about 10% of the vehicle purchase price to make up for the loss of resale value as the vehicles are not what was advertised or nearly as desirable. And I agree fully with you that they screwed everyone living on this planet the worst.
tamalesfan 8y ago
> As a former owner of 2 TDI dirty diesels Sounds like you enjoyed your diesel hot rods for a good long while. You really should consider foregoing your martyrdom at some point; the well of sympathy for you isn't bottomless. Some of us can recall the years of self righteous VW owners lecturing the world about their little miracle cars. You bought into a fraud. An honorable person finds a little shame in that, even when they can claim innocence.
- sgift 8y ago
  > An honorable person finds a little shame in that, even when they can claim innocence. ... what? So, if someone falls for a pyramid scheme they should be ashamed of themselves? If someone gets tricked by a phone scam they should be ashamed? Even in a sea of "you are always at fault!" bad takes, this has to be one of the worst. Victims should never feel shame that others abused them/their trust.
  - tamalesfan 8y ago
    > So, if someone falls for a pyramid scheme they should be ashamed of themselves? A little, yes. Detecting 'too good to be true' is an important aspect of judgement. Blithely inculcating every claim when it aligns with self interest is at the root of many evils. You can see it in the post; the test drive sold it. This isn't an anomaly. VW buyers cite that same observation over and over. They liked the performance; they were buying performance. When some yob brings a gas powered V8 pony car home from the dealer we're all granted permission to sneer at the selfish fool. Yet somehow the millions of VW buyers that learned about the kick in the pants product with the respectable badge are all mysteriously exempt and entitled to absolution. Not from me.

by sanguy 8y ago

twblalock 8y ago

I know several people who had diesel VWs and let VW buy them back for almost the same price they paid for them two years earlier. Why didn't you do that? VW did a bad thing, but the owners did not get screwed. In fact, the non-owners got screwed worse because we had to breathe the same fumes as the owners but we didn't get a free car for two years.

sgift 8y ago
It depends on the country they are in. They were not so generous here in Germany, cause our government still protects VW. Prosecutors have none of it, but that takes time and so far they don't really feel the heat.
- joecool1029 8y ago
  I would assume it also depends on the emissions and fuel regulations in the country. The US has always had shitty diesel fuel at the pumps and it wasn't until around 10 years ago that you ultra-low sulfur diesel was ubiquitous everywhere. The 500ppm low sulfur diesel would screw up the catalysts. So the US answer was always to de-tune the vehicles, Germany had better configurations due to what I assume were higher fuel quality standards and less stringent emissions. Oh, I found a source confirming my suspicion: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/587331/IPOL_STU(2016)587331_EN.pdf http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/58733... check page 16 for an overview.
joecool1029 8y ago
>I know several people who had diesel VWs and let VW buy them back for almost the same price they paid for them two years earlier. Why didn't you do that? Parent made the wrong choices. I can tell because they talked about using the car in the city. It's the wrong vehicle for city driving. FWIW I bought a 2012 VW Golf TDI for around $25k out the door. Drove almost 200k mi before it was bought back, received $18.5k or so back on it from VW, Bosch payments and the initial 'we're sorry package'. It was my second TDI after a 98 Jetta TDI. There was simply no other competition on the market for efficient long distance highway travel, which is what I used it for... and for people that asked me about its mileage, I would tell them... it only makes sense if you drive highways for at least a half hour each day. I was personally responsible for 2 Golf TDI's, a Passat TDI, and a A3 TDI being purchased by friends and family. All but one were bought back for values that were over market. The one that wasn't was because he sold it before the scandal broke. So no, I don't understand the butthurt on lost value. It lost value because that's what vehicles do after a few years (or even after you drive them off the lot), not because of the scandal. You can speculate all you want, but the fact was once the buyback happened you had three options to replace the car left in the market segment. 1. A pre-2007 Benz or VW that overnight became impossible to purchase 2. A 2016 'fixed' TDI that had all the issues of the DPF. 3. One of the few Chevy Cruze diesels that were ludicrously overpriced and had poor option choice (no hatchback and standard trans: did you not want to capture some of VW's market?) I would still very much expect that even in their dirty state, TDI's put out far less carbon emissions than gas vehicles do. NOX emissions, while a problem are less of a concern for long distance rural trips. Had I done it in a gas car I'm quite certain the longterm effect would be worse, even moreso if I flew in a jet for those trips. And yeah, absolutely charge the people involved for covering up the testing. They are responsible not just for the pollution they caused while the cars were produced, but for the future pollution caused by the void of more efficient small vehicles that electric isn't ready to fill yet (outside of burbs). I'm pro electric, it just wouldn't work for my use case. For example, I tell people with a 5mi commute to a train station to buy old Nissan Leafs, because it's ideal for their use case. It doesn't make sense owning a diesel for that because they soot up and have issues when they aren't run enough.
sanguy 8y ago
Only Gen-1 cars had the buy-back as they could not be fixed with software. Gen-2 cars they came up with a way to reprogram them to get to pass; but as I mentioned it comes with a huge impact of mileage and performance. Us gen-2 owners got about 10% of the vehicle purchase price to make up for the loss of resale value as the vehicles are not what was advertised or nearly as desirable. And I agree fully with you that they screwed everyone living on this planet the worst.

tamalesfan 8y ago

> As a former owner of 2 TDI dirty diesels Sounds like you enjoyed your diesel hot rods for a good long while. You really should consider foregoing your martyrdom at some point; the well of sympathy for you isn't bottomless. Some of us can recall the years of self righteous VW owners lecturing the world about their little miracle cars. You bought into a fraud. An honorable person finds a little shame in that, even when they can claim innocence.

sgift 8y ago
> An honorable person finds a little shame in that, even when they can claim innocence. ... what? So, if someone falls for a pyramid scheme they should be ashamed of themselves? If someone gets tricked by a phone scam they should be ashamed? Even in a sea of "you are always at fault!" bad takes, this has to be one of the worst. Victims should never feel shame that others abused them/their trust.
- tamalesfan 8y ago
  > So, if someone falls for a pyramid scheme they should be ashamed of themselves? A little, yes. Detecting 'too good to be true' is an important aspect of judgement. Blithely inculcating every claim when it aligns with self interest is at the root of many evils. You can see it in the post; the test drive sold it. This isn't an anomaly. VW buyers cite that same observation over and over. They liked the performance; they were buying performance. When some yob brings a gas powered V8 pony car home from the dealer we're all granted permission to sneer at the selfish fool. Yet somehow the millions of VW buyers that learned about the kick in the pants product with the respectable badge are all mysteriously exempt and entitled to absolution. Not from me.