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I didn’t see anything about this in the article, so I ask here in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable can comment: how are they controlling for selection

I didn’t see anything about this in the article, so I ask here in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable can comment: how are they controlling for selection bias? Is there any way to select into or out of this school, or is it purely the standard districting system? Even if it’s the latter in many other places it’s still possible to move into the area. Do we know to what extent that has been happening? Edit: Oops, I was tricked by an advert. The article continued to say that the students were admitted by lottery. The only question I’m immediately left with then is whether they had to enter the lottery, or whether it was automatic? And was their admission contingent on their parents’ willingness to participate in these extra classes? https://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/03/29/why-selection-bias-is-the-most-powerful-force-in-education/ https://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/03/29/why-selection-bias-is-t...

eyeinthepyramid 7y ago
From the article: "I Promise students were among those identified by the district as performing in the 10th to 25th percentile on their second-grade assessments. They were then admitted through a lottery."
- patrickyeon 7y ago
  Because I wasn't sure which end of the bell curve this was referring to, "10th to 25th percentile" in this article means students significantly below the median, not above it.
- OscarCunningham 7y ago
  There will be some amount of regression to the mean then. It would be best to compare these kids to the students who "lost" the lottery rather to all students.
icelancer 7y ago
There is selection bias for sure; except it works in the opposite way regarding successful outcomes. IPS takes low-performing individuals and puts them in a lottery system. This differs from a charter school or other alternative schools that skirt responsibility of special needs kids... but it should bear mention that IPS is not without controversy. The lottery system causes a lot of strife in eligible-but-unpicked individuals and also costs the taxpayers a substantial sum; LeBron does not cover 100% of the costs, or even a majority of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Promise_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Promise_School
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Charter schools dont skirt special needs kids they take them in. Whats really absurd is that a lot of people are against the lottery but totally fine with public schools zipcode method. Edit: why the downvotes? My two sons are at a charter school they take special needs children. They have to by law.
  - robdachshund 7y ago
    I don't know if you've noticed but you aren't allowed to say things on hn that go against silicon valley political talking points.
  - dashundchen 7y ago
    There are plenty of reports of charter schools pushing out low-performing students to get the student population they want. Labeling students with disabilities and claiming they don't have enough services to support them is very common. Unequal punishment leading to expulsion is another. http://gothamist.com/2015/10/30/success_academy_charter.php http://gothamist.com/2015/10/30/success_academy_charter.php Another common tactic is to play games with the lottery/application process to get the student population they want. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-charters-admissions-idUSBRE91E0HF20130215 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-charters-admissions-i... Anecdotally the teachers I know working in a local charter tell me the administration definitely makes it known they want low performers out transferred out before testing is performed.
    - sidlls 7y ago
      > Labeling students with disabilities and claiming they don't have enough services to support them is very common. Unequal punishment leading to expulsion is another. This happens at public schools, too. My family recently had a huge tussle with the public school our kids attend because one of our children there was being punished for behavior stemming from his condition (autism). They kept pushing back on our requests for resources because of how strapped they are for cash and staff and all that. The length we had to go to get a public school in a well-funded Bay Area district to just obey the law was astounding. I have the deepest sympathy for parents in districts without the means ours has.
ThomPete 7y ago
Charter schools use the lottery method, at least the one my two sons are on (success academy) its a great school with great success but a lot of it is obviously engaged parents (such as even entering the lottery)

eyeinthepyramid 7y ago

From the article: "I Promise students were among those identified by the district as performing in the 10th to 25th percentile on their second-grade assessments. They were then admitted through a lottery."

patrickyeon 7y ago
Because I wasn't sure which end of the bell curve this was referring to, "10th to 25th percentile" in this article means students significantly below the median, not above it.
OscarCunningham 7y ago
There will be some amount of regression to the mean then. It would be best to compare these kids to the students who "lost" the lottery rather to all students.

icelancer 7y ago

There is selection bias for sure; except it works in the opposite way regarding successful outcomes. IPS takes low-performing individuals and puts them in a lottery system. This differs from a charter school or other alternative schools that skirt responsibility of special needs kids... but it should bear mention that IPS is not without controversy. The lottery system causes a lot of strife in eligible-but-unpicked individuals and also costs the taxpayers a substantial sum; LeBron does not cover 100% of the costs, or even a majority of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Promise_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Promise_School

ThomPete 7y ago
Charter schools dont skirt special needs kids they take them in. Whats really absurd is that a lot of people are against the lottery but totally fine with public schools zipcode method. Edit: why the downvotes? My two sons are at a charter school they take special needs children. They have to by law.
- robdachshund 7y ago
  I don't know if you've noticed but you aren't allowed to say things on hn that go against silicon valley political talking points.
- dashundchen 7y ago
  There are plenty of reports of charter schools pushing out low-performing students to get the student population they want. Labeling students with disabilities and claiming they don't have enough services to support them is very common. Unequal punishment leading to expulsion is another. http://gothamist.com/2015/10/30/success_academy_charter.php http://gothamist.com/2015/10/30/success_academy_charter.php Another common tactic is to play games with the lottery/application process to get the student population they want. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-charters-admissions-idUSBRE91E0HF20130215 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-charters-admissions-i... Anecdotally the teachers I know working in a local charter tell me the administration definitely makes it known they want low performers out transferred out before testing is performed.
  - sidlls 7y ago
    > Labeling students with disabilities and claiming they don't have enough services to support them is very common. Unequal punishment leading to expulsion is another. This happens at public schools, too. My family recently had a huge tussle with the public school our kids attend because one of our children there was being punished for behavior stemming from his condition (autism). They kept pushing back on our requests for resources because of how strapped they are for cash and staff and all that. The length we had to go to get a public school in a well-funded Bay Area district to just obey the law was astounding. I have the deepest sympathy for parents in districts without the means ours has.

ThomPete 7y ago

Charter schools use the lottery method, at least the one my two sons are on (success academy) its a great school with great success but a lot of it is obviously engaged parents (such as even entering the lottery)